(OLD) Next Patch Feedback Suggestions

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by yobanchi, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Precisely, gentlemen.
     
  2. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    Im i the only one who read this as an evil genius voice?

    After witches, can we twitch zombies a little as well.
     
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  3. BroWatchThis

    BroWatchThis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I would love to see zombies and skeles tweaked.
     
  4. Entrepidus

    Entrepidus I need me some PIE!

    As long as we continue to adjust Wurmz (and other less popular themes) over time with a couple tweaks a patch, I'd have no problem supporting this. Use each patch to focus on the major themes while tweaking the minor themes over time.
     
  5. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    Really, again, worms? they alredy gave them something, i dont what but they did, you want the little buggers to fly and shoot laser beams, after witches, is liches then skeletons/zombies.:mad:
     
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  6. Entrepidus

    Entrepidus I need me some PIE!

    It's clear to me you have very little understanding of Wurmz especially with regard to how painful they are to play right now. I don't want them to be OP, I want them to be playable and a few changes each patch in addition to the bulk of changes dedicated to the focal theme is the best way to address them in my mind.
     
  7. Zythraak

    Zythraak The King of Potatoes

    I would love to see zombies and skeles with a twitch.
     
  8. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    Is way more clear that THEY ONLY GOT 1 VOTE IN THE POLL, that means that no one (well one person actually) gives a actual Firk about worms, the way things are if we focus on one thing we might stick with it, if we ask for a lot of things they will turn them in to crap.
     
  9. Zythraak

    Zythraak The King of Potatoes

    I don't think most FW players want liches to be a theme in and of themselves. We should do a poll to determine if we WANT them to even be a theme....but on a sidenote, make hoarfrost lich epicly good and i'll play any theme with them. ;)


    What about an idea for phylactery bound? Make it MUCH cheaper, and then make it activatable, 30 nora skill to reanimate the last lich that died with full AP, 4 round cooldown starts on cooldown?
     
  10. Zythraak

    Zythraak The King of Potatoes


    Are worms even playable, though? I'll probably try them pretty soon.
     
  11. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    If they hadn't just received a patch I probably would have voted for them.

    I don't see why anyone would vote for a theme that just got theme buffs as the target of the next patch.

    Saying that people dislike creeps is like saying someone who just ate a 5 course meal must hate food because they aren't hungry.
     
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  12. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    I've updated the main post. For the most part I have decided to leave Witch/Vampyres alone in this patch.
    The main reason I'll cite is from the recent Gedden interview on twitch where he says that he has some plans/ideas for Vampyres and possibly how they tie in lore wise with witches. Due to this I am more inclined to wait on those particular runes as they may get adjustments later.

    Notable additions are Dark apprentice as it's always been a lackluster rune. It has maintained its lich roots in its upgrades but now is a very good witch candidate. Namely the combo of adaptive fw (which goes hella good for him being an apprentice learning the dark arts) and having to recast their main spell so often.

    Worms is currently still on the table but perhaps more time is needed so I'm debating removing this item to get more data. The current set is a little tainted since propagate carrionling spawns units with creep witch it shouldn't since they are summoned. This results in carrion colossus basically being unrunnable in creeps since it eats all the zone soon after. The majority of play has resulted in the zone growth being irrelevant though.

    I've also putting in a change for haunting grip. I'm more concerned with the stack summoning of a permanent ghost unit at spell presence at that cost then what is being stated in other portions of the forum in regards to magic damage availability in their respective factions. Utterdark Specter is pretty much a lynch pin to the theme so cheep spells are essential. Giving it a cost decrease and short lived helps address both concerns and makes the spell more flexible and more focussed for it's intended effect: A ghost pops up, attaches itself, grants lumbering and does a bit of damage.

    I have to do more thinking on the interaction between short lived and the ability cool downs and triggers more. If Short Lived 1 is too "short" going to Short lived 2 may be in order instead.
     
  13. exiledtyrant

    exiledtyrant Active Member

    Could dark apprentice get weaken spells instead of council spells in his second upgrade path? That way favor synergies with the foul rite decks and weaken spells helps reduce damage when you are spell sealing via DMZ and things like ancients protection. The -5 nora probably won't mean much against a theme that is blocking so many spells off to begin with.
     
  14. Shimaru

    Shimaru Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Ugh, just no.

    I have several reasons to oppose and actually hate this proposal, so I'll try to be brief. From weakest to stronger:

    - It's flavour doesn't fit. Most witches are females magic users usually associated with nature and open spaces. This is an old guy in a laboratory. There is nothing at all that made me think "witch" when I see the rune art, quite the opposite.

    - Is a legendary / limited rune. I thought we were trying to buff champions more accessible, hence most suggestions so far were focused on common to rare champions. Even if we expand the criteria, I think there are far more champions in the exotic and legendary rarities that fit better than this. Sarinda, or wretched witch anyone?

    - It sacrifices a better proposal. What happened to the dark enchantress proposal? I understand that vampires are the focus for coming expansions, hence why we should avoid buffing too much a vampire. However, taking her away from the list also took a large chunk of abilities that we have been talking would benefit the theme in a significant way, namely, the desecrate zone / defiling aura + fascinate combo. None of the other proposals includes any of these abilities, and all of them would fit perfectly into a witch theme.

    - Isn't even a witch focused proposal, just a generic meta champion. If we ignore the lich related abilities (worship and apprentice), we're left with curse at one hand, and council spells or favour on the other. For starters, curse as part of a proposal irk me to no limit. Is a piece of carp! ("But we already proposed to improve it!") If the developer accept to buff curse (again), then we'll have to wait to see if they buff it into a way that made it competitive enough and then we need to see if the new improved curse fits into the general design to finally be able to determine if it was a good proposal. I don't know you, but that's a ton of "IF" and I would prefer to not take my chances to see our buff slots screwed by one bad turn on any of those steps. If the developers doesn't buff curse, or they waste resources doing nothing relevant to improve it (again) or the new curse simply have no synergy with the rest of the champion (lich apprentice is a pretty strong ability), then effectively, having curse as upgrade path would be a waste.

    That leave us with the second upgrade path and my biggest concern: fw adaptive. At one hand, you have an ability that let's you spam for cheaper, hence having a synergy with adaptive. At the other, there is this ability that gives you 5n whenever the opposite casts a spell, but does nothing to prevent said spell and is effects are still in control of the opponent. My opinion? The most obvious choice is to pick favour and adaptive fw. The dark apprentice would benefit from being included into a witch bg because the witching hour spam, but, other than having a super champion, how does a witch bg would benefit from having this revamped dark apprentice? What synergy does he offer?

    And more importantly, if we can substitute witching hour with some other cheap spell (like foul rite and wake the dead), why would need to design a witch bg to begin with? Why don't just pick Magnus and maybe utterdark spectre and play a super-champion bg?

    ...

    Sorry, but I really, really think this is a terrible suggestion and I would propose to completely drop it. Plenty of witches still require some work to be fully competitive, I just don't see the need to look at the dark apprentice and drag him into the theme. Heck, I dislike it so much I would prefer to see that buff slot dedicated to buff another worm or some other token champion rather than adding another witch that does nothing to benefit the theme but, "hey, is a witch, hence it shows how much effort we're putting into that theme".
     
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  15. Entrepidus

    Entrepidus I need me some PIE!

    I ask that you don't write Wurmz off just yet. I've been collecting said "data" and will be putting together a list of suggested changes.
     
  16. exiledtyrant

    exiledtyrant Active Member

    1. Flavor may need to be put at the way side to bring the remaining wizards into the fold. There's no support for the handful of wizards vs witches. Witches remain the large human group with the only support.

    2. It's true legendary makes him a problem accessibility wise. He is usually the cheapest legend to acquire though, but his price would definitely see some rise with the changes so it's to variable to really say how many people will actually benefit from his buff.

    3. I can definitely agree council spells. Witches should be operating vs a lot of DMZ so penalizing spell casting beyond that is not going to prove worthwhile that's why I suggested weaken spells. I like the direction of curse even though it could be improved upon. Curse of ashes triggering revel for each hit in a 6x6 area at 50% damage + 5 magic damage on every enemy is pretty nice especially for it's cost. Some more curse skills and more pain curse units to choose from could definitely round it out. People act like revel in misery was the worst thing that happened to witches but a theme that can globally amp all of their champions into the 30+ attack range and then globally heal them for 25% of the damage done by each instance of damage done is silly.

    4. The biggest benefit of his second line would be favor as foul rite decks would rotating witching hour, despoil and foul rite around the clock. This would make him the fastest amping human in the game gaining 5 damage and 14 hp per foul rite ( double graveyard 1 skeleton each) and 1 dam and 4 hp per despoil and witching hour. He would hit 100 hp very fast and he would be 3 damage higher a spell rotation than any other human. All the while reducing each witch spell by 5 nora.

    5. You wouldn't be substituting witching hour with anything. Why witches would not incorporate foul rite into every deck is beyond me as 4 permanent damage and 10 permanent health every 5 rounds( at the lowest possible graveyard gen) is very appealing. Wake the dead is another foul rite synergizing spell that does better with humans.

    You would not combine dark apprentice with Fallen magnus or utterdark for a FW adaptive trio because your low cost spells would have no synergy , Your bg would have no synergy ( human, spirit, paladin), and your damage amp would be inferior to witches because Foul rite would kill everyone except Dark apprentice unless you wasted nora on reflesh and did this costly unsustainable resource and timer dance. You'd be casting spells to cast them instead of chaining them together in the lovely setup that witches already have.

    He meshes with witches, wizards need a home and the only humans that are going to be getting attention are witches and maybe anti paladins which wizards certainly are not.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  17. Nite2kill

    Nite2kill I need me some PIE!

    (Sigh)........10 pages of stuff and we have come down to this DA a witch.....(Sigh)........the crying from the stronger factions have influenced members of our faction that a spell is to much for the game " cause we don't have runes with magic attack in our builds" (Sigh)........
     
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  18. BroWatchThis

    BroWatchThis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I never once believed that haunting grip was over the top. People just want a reason to complain about FW, even when it's the worst faction.
     
  19. Mercer Skye

    Mercer Skye I need me some PIE!

    True, and I won't dispute that, but witches right now are only slightly better off than creeps at the moment from what I've seen. As in; They win 20% of their games compared to 5% with creeps (Creeps just weren't a concern of mine since they got the bulk of the last patch)
     
  20. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    Follower looked pretty much perfect before. Wondering why you changed her.

    She can't have two rituals at the cost of a summon any more and she also lost Dark Healing. Sure, she has it on upgrade path 1, let me just give up summon skeleton and change upgrade path 2 to... To... Uh...

    I mean. Dark Healing hardly ever triggers as it is. Making you chose between that and a definite trigger for an upgrade 2 ability is no contest.

    I'm not even mentioning coven. Until it does something for the person taking it, I'm just going to assume that witches with it as an upgrade simply don't have access to the ability.

    On a similar note, the hourglass is now pretty useless again.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014

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