Comments on Profile Post by GemmaXylia

  1. GemmaXylia
    GemmaXylia
    and yes ik it's working as described because it's not an attack but really I think it should be. You are getting the bonus of not having to use that AP on movement why should you get all the other benefits of pounce not being an attack aswell? pounce 2 stronk
    Sep 13, 2016
  2. Etherielin
    Etherielin
    Agreed. Pounce right now ignores everything, which is dumb. Not sure if DEF is ignored as well.
    Sep 13, 2016
  3. mw24
    mw24
    pounce should probably be reworked.
    Sep 13, 2016
  4. darklord48
    darklord48
    Does blind cause scythe whirl to miss?
    Sep 13, 2016
  5. Etherielin
    Etherielin
    Last time I blinded a champ with scythe whirl in a campaign, he did miss the attack when using the ability, so...dunno.
    Sep 13, 2016
  6. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    It's weird how there are complaints against pounce, but not massive leap. they do basically the same thing.
    Sep 13, 2016
  7. themacca
    themacca
    Sok there is a pretty big damage difference. Longer range shorter cooldown.
    Sep 13, 2016
  8. Etherielin
    Etherielin
    Massive leap is leap + tremor, which is fixed damage. (8 + potential 5) Pounce's damage varies and can reach insane values with next to no way of mitigating it.
    Sep 13, 2016
  9. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Mechanically they are the same is what I meant; Relocate + AE damage.
    Sep 13, 2016
  10. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Yet in the case of Pounce, it's "dumb" and "weird" that it is not an attack, but in the case of Massive Leap no one cares.
    Sep 13, 2016
  11. Lushiris
    Lushiris
    I do care, that's why I had asked to have the Lumbering from Tremor to be cleansable. But etherielin's point is that Pounce has a far greater damage potential, and I'd add the Icing that is the UD spell. However it's just too recent a change to warrant a nerf, specially given nobody really cared much for Pounce before, so I think it deserves to be strong for a good while.
    Sep 13, 2016
  12. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Wanting Lumbering from Tremor to be cleansable doesn't really have much to do with Pounce... so I am not sure what your point is.
    Sep 13, 2016
  13. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    The fact is, when people complain about Pounce, they typically talk about it in terms of MECHANICS. They say stuff like "Pounce works through blind, lol" which is about the MECHANICS, not the EFFICACY of the ability. And the things they complain about regarding Pounce are traits it shares with Massive Leap. Yes, there are other differences, but that is what is initially complained about it.
    Sep 13, 2016
  14. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    As for "too recent a change" I am not sure what you are referring to, since Pounce has been working this way for quite awhile.
    Sep 13, 2016
  15. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    (Note: Lumbering from Tremor should absolutely be cleansable, regardless of any other discussion here, but it's really quite a different discussion from whether Pounce should be subject to attack counters (while Massive Leap is not).)
    Sep 13, 2016
  16. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    In short, I have never heard someone suggest that Massive Leap should be prevented by Blind and other attack counters, and whether or not Lumbering is cleansable doesn't seem like it'd change that.
    Sep 13, 2016
  17. Etherielin
    Etherielin
    That's because everyone is trying to come up with a counter for it, Sok. I think it's fairer to say "Make it counterable" than "Gut it" in the grand scheme of things.
    Sep 13, 2016
  18. Etherielin
    Etherielin
    That was @pounce. Blinding Leap isn't such an issue, because - again - the damage is static, while Pounce's isn't. It's the damage difference with next to no way of countering it that is driving peeps insane here, not pounce itself. Most simply don't try to nerf the damage and just keep going for counters, but there are nearly none to be found.
    Sep 13, 2016
  19. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Well, maybe I misunderstood Lush, as his point appeared to be he DOES care about Massive Leap working through blind, and so he asked for it to be nerfed via Lumbering cleansable, which didn't make any sense to me.
    Sep 13, 2016
  20. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    I understand there's a damage output difference, but again, people don't say that typically. They just say "it's weird that it isn't an attack" when it's absolutely logical.
    Sep 13, 2016
  21. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    In either case, note that we are moving away untargeted abilities making attacks in general because of the bugs/complication of interactions they cause, so don't expect Pounce to behave like an attack any time soon - it was switched away from an attack (a long time ago) for a reason.
    Sep 13, 2016
  22. Etherielin
    Etherielin
    It needs to have its behaviour changed then - perhaps even making its damage scale like cones (50, 65, 80%) would do the trick. It just needs to be made less ridiculous somehow.
    Sep 13, 2016
  23. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Also, to answer the question about Scythe Whirl, no, Blind doesn't counter that either.
    Sep 13, 2016
  24. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    We could, but we are trying to move away from % scaling like that, especially with odd percentages.
    Sep 13, 2016
  25. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    I do think Lush has a point about it being more visible now because of the addition of a couple runes that grant Pounce recently - especially since Pounce has been this way for a long time.
    Sep 13, 2016
  26. Etherielin
    Etherielin
    Well - do keep a close eye on it as spot pounce in damage-heavy factions will give you a lot of bad blood. Is there any idea you've got in your mind for it, Sok?
    Sep 13, 2016
  27. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    I am not convinced Pounce needs a change, so no, I don't have any specific ideas for it.
    Sep 13, 2016
  28. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Lonx Bonecharm is definitely getting nerfed, and Boundless Enthusiam is being monitored for a small cost increase (but honestly, you are paying X nora and it requires a champ, so you'd expect a bit more damage than a larger AE or something that doesn't have a champ requirement). The other "spot Pounce" has been around a long time and never been an issue that I know of.
    Sep 13, 2016
  29. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Oh, there's the Farm too - global spot Pounce for Mutants. Again, haven't seen any specific concerns about that rune.
    Sep 13, 2016
  30. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Though it might be a problem later, if Mutants are good.
    Sep 13, 2016
  31. darklord48
    darklord48
    I think of pounce and scythe whirl as counters to blind, not the other way around. I didn't believe scythe whirl would miss die to blind, but I was at work and couldn't test.
    Sep 13, 2016
  32. Lushiris
    Lushiris
    @Sokolov My point about tremor's Lumbering not being cleansable is that you said nobody cares about it being "dumb" and "weird". Comparatively, you actually can counter pounce with a damage debuff(if you're lucky enough to have the champion within your spell presence before it happens), but again Tremor mechanics there's absolutely nothing you can do, specially now that it also affects Flying champions.
    Sep 13, 2016
  33. nepyonisdead
    nepyonisdead
    here is the thing aight? pounce is good counter to alot of abilities like deflect, one with nora etc etc.. Is it good ? yes is it OP and needs a nerf absolutely not. Ive read this forum and I really cant tell why anyone has a problem with it and again in ranked pox you can never count on blind to stop ur opponent (everyone expects a keeneye / harlberd of jthir etc etc)
    Sep 13, 2016
  34. Lushiris
    Lushiris
    You just listed counters that are restricted to ST. It's easier to see blinded being cleansed than countered by Precision tbh.
    Sep 13, 2016
  35. themacca
    themacca
    Issue being with pounce i think is everyone looks at it as relocation then a close combat attack against everything adjacent. Which is how it should work but cause it's an aoe all the things you would do to counter an attack just outright don't work. That's why it's a problem and that's why it should be changed
    Sep 13, 2016
  36. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    So that argument is exactly what I was referring to. People simply look at it as an attack for SOME reason - and don't see similar things like Massive Leap or Portal Blast as being attacks.
    Sep 13, 2016
  37. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Is it because of the name? Should I just rename Pounce to "Stomping Leap" or something? Would that make it feel less like an attack?
    Sep 13, 2016
  38. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Or is it because it's tied to DMG? I can certainly understand this sentiment to some extent. And it's true that things that are tied to DMG are more likely to be attacks... but it's not a rule. We have things tied to DMG that aren't attacks, and things not tied to DMG that are.
    Sep 13, 2016
  39. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Bottom line tho is that when the argument that "everyone looks at it as relocate then a close combat attack" is made, it's never quite clear WHY this is the case and whether it's valid, and why that reasoning doesn't apply to other damage effects as well (whether they have relocate or not).
    Sep 13, 2016
  40. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    (That said, at least now that Swarm is basic attacks only, there wouldn't be AE Swarms like there used to be when Cones and Pounce were pseudo-attacks. One of the problems with untargeted effects like this counting as attacks is that you get into all kinds of ambiguous scenarios with attack triggers.)
    Sep 13, 2016
  41. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    As a thought experiment, @themacca, would you say that everyone looks at it as a close combat attack would still be true if:

    1 - It dealt 10 damage flat?
    2 - It dealt damage in AE2?
    3 - It didn't have relocate and was AE 1 (Adjacent champions take X damage?)
    4 - it didn't have relocate and was AE 2 (Champions within 2 spaces take X damage?)
    Sep 13, 2016
  42. Sokolov
    Sokolov
    Thinking thru it like the above, I am actually thinking now it's because it's because it's AE1 that makes people think "attack."

    Even tho the mechanical difference between AE1 and AE2 damage clauses is just the radius size, from a visual perspective you think of AE1 as "adjacent" and things next to each other attack each other, rather than dealing damage directly.
    Sep 13, 2016
  43. themacca
    themacca
    I think generally people will always think of it as an attack as long as its ae1.
    Sep 13, 2016