2016 Primaries, Caucuses & Conventions

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by DarkJello, Feb 2, 2016.

  1. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    He's a big deal, actually. Soros funded the protestors and rebels in Ukraine, and I believe was at least indirectly involved with the Arab Spring in Egypt. He also controls MoveOn.org and funds a large portion of Black Lives Matter, both of which were present in and at least the latter had members which participated in the rioting in Chicago that canceled the Trump rally. He had also funded ACORN, La Raza, and some other groups in the US which are less than sterling examples of political activism (ACORN famously torn apart by investigative reporting, which I assume the anti-PP guys had hoped to mimic and failed to [different group investigating], and La Raza being a Mexican-supremacist organization that also promotes "reclaiming" Texas and California and Arizona and all them as Mexican territory).

    There's a lot more to it, but essentially he's well known for funding groups that have/are likely to cause civil unrest.

    He has an outstanding warrant for his arrest from Russia and recognized by Interpol with a Red Notice, specifically on the charges of attempted destabilization IIRC (of Russia specifically, not Ukraine in this case).

    Soros is a big-time political player on the international scene.

    While certainly the President of the US is an important role in that as well, Soros is one of the "special interests" that everyone is normally so concerned about.
     
    newsbuff and DarkJello like this.
  2. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

  3. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    It seemed pretty clear what he meant at the time. But whatever, he says awful things, sometimes he backtracks, sometimes he doesn't, then he says something else awful. Who knows what he really thinks.

    Personally I don't think he thinks much of anything - he doesn't seem to have an ideological goal in mind, certainly not in the way Cruz and sanders do. He just comes up with random populist crap and reacts to the situation he is in. If he this way with the military then who knows what could happen.

    Ultimately I think this is all a vanity project for him.
     
    BurnPyro and Ohmin like this.
  4. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    In a 55 page thread various side discussions are bound to spring up. Perhaps I should have quoted BP's post since that's what prompted my remarks today. I just assumed since you chimed in that you were following along but I will allow for the possibility that you didn't realize that I was commenting on burns post.
     
  5. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    I don't think Cruz is going to make it.
     
  6. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    This should change your mind. If not, you should at least chuckle a bit.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    This might be why Bernie lost:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    bad memes?

    no that can't be it

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  9. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    You should study socialism before making repeating stupid misconceptions. It makes you look ignorant. Even more so when you're convinced that donald trump of all people knows what he's doing.

    Who ya'll gon blame when Johny Obamy is out of the office and the world still isn't paradise? And I know it's not gon be Trump, cause you're still convinced Bush was somehow an okay president, or at least better than Obama. I'll be looking forward to your answer in a couple of years.
     
    Geressen likes this.
  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Oh, my point was never that George Soros isn't important.

    The point is why, in a thread about "2016 Primaries, Caucuses & Conventions" we are being told that talking about what candidates have said or done is akin to making fun of their hair and lacks perspective.

    But instead, we should talk about ISIS and George Soros?

    I mean, if one thinks George Soros is an appropriate topic for this thread (which I don't have a problem with, hence why I said if we talk about him, that's fine), then surely what a presidential candidate has said or done is also appropriate.

    As usual, I feel like you are targeting me specifically for some reason, and in this case reply with something I was never against as though my point was something completely different than what I was getting at. I really don't understand why you seem insistent to continually target and nitpick individual replies of mine while ignoring the actual point I was making, but let people like Ragic have free rein.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yea, and I can understand some of what you said if you are SOLELY referring to that one post, but you did make generalizing statements about the left, etc. and the post I quoted did not specifically mention a video or hitler and, I quote,

    In other words, "ISIS is more important, stop caring about what politicians say and care about more important things instead." <- If this isn't what you meant, I have to assure you this is what it sounded like.

    I assumed since you kept replying to me even though I was talking about being involved in the civic process and candidates's words and actions that I was talking very generally about being interested in what candidates say and do in general.

    But yea, if you are only commenting on ONE post in a 55 page thread and don't want to expand out of that one post in terms of discussion, pls quote that post AND also avoid using broad generalizations that can be applied to previous discussions, particularly when the overall topic you are discussing is related to what has been discussed in the last few pages.

    Otherwise, it will lead to misunderstandings :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  12. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Soros seems to Firk with people I think need Firking with.

    other than that I am in a state of bored and desinterrested ambivalence.
     
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Different topic:

    Clinton in the past has been anti-video games to some extent. I don't see this being an issue within her possible terms, but does anyone have thoughts or comments on this?

    I feel like she was just playing to the political climate at the time, but it does have a linkage to censorship and media control, etc.
     
  14. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    The world will NEVER be a paradise! We can improve things as the generations roll along, to the degree that groovy choices are made. For now, pass the popcorn.


    [​IMG]
     
  15. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    The new battle cry: Why can't the media 'stop' Trump?

    By Howard Kurtz

    Published March 17, 2016


    There are limits, it turns out, to the mighty power of the press. Voters don’t much trust the media these days, and they get to decide which candidates they like.

    Of course Trump has received disproportionate air time of his rallies and speeches in a way that is unfair to his rivals. But he also subjects himself to seemingly endless rounds of interviews—including the morning shows yesterday--taking all manner of journalistic questions in a way that his opponents do not. Hillary Clinton, for instance, has gone about 100 days without holding a news conference.


    Trump, for his part, continues to trash the press. Even after his big victories Tuesday night, he complained about one pundit’s comments and took a whack at the “disgusting” reporters in the room. His campaign also yanked the credentials of a Politico writer who had written a one-sided and harshly negative piece about his campaign manager.

    This sort of thing is hardly unknown in politics, but it’s small ball that consumes too much of Trump’s time. As he pivots toward a more unifying tone, he might try to rise above the daily cable chatter.

    I am not pro-Trump or anti-Trump. I am a journalist. And journalists who aren’t in the opinion business are supposed to be fair. They often fall short, of course, but it is not a “failure” on their part that Trump is on his way to the Republican nomination—that is, unless you’re a Trump-hater who thinks it’s our duty to knock out the candidate you so detest.


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/17/new-battle-cry-why-cant-media-stop-trump.html

    (Emphasis mine).
     
  16. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Not with this attitude, this attitude stops improvements .
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I had a discussion with someone awhile back who is fairly anti-renewable/leftwing/liberal/socialism.

    And he suggested that given the cost and non-zero environmental impacts of renewables (for example, birds are killed by windfarms), we should just stick to fossil fuels.

    I said that while it is true that many forms of renewables are, indeed, not very efficient and some have their own problematic environmental costs, that shouldn't stop us from trying to progress technologically.

    He said, "That's exactly the kind of disgusting liberal platitudes that are dooming the world."

    I was like wtf?
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  18. StormChasee

    StormChasee The King of Potatoes

    Geressen, those pictures of Bernie give new meaning to the phrase 'bad hair day' as does a windy in El Paso.

    Sokolov, of course people should pay attention to what candidates say as well as their record. Since Trump doesn't have a record of being an elected official, we can only go with what he's said over the last couple decades or so of his life. Each of us have to decide whether his changes of mind are genuine or playing politics.

    My point is that when I've seen Trump speak he hasn't said anything that out of line with what I've heard from other candidates. Besides regardless the individual is ultimately responsible for how they respond to what was said. I object to a lot of what Obama has said, but I don't threaten his supporters over it. I'm demanding and expecting the same treatment in return.

    Bear in mind Trump is not my favorite candidate in this race. I'm more ideologically aligned with Cruz, but I also recognize his chances of winning enough delegates to keep Trump from getting enough to win on the first ballot, let alone win outright, are on life-support.

    I will tell you that being called a racist, bigoted, homophobic, islamophobe who wants dirty air, dirty water and to throw grandma off the cliff gets tiresome after while. It is also hardly conducive to civil discourse. It's a bunch of BS. I think one reason why Trump is so popular is he's not taking that BS and has thrown some of it back in their face.

    Now if you want examples of liberal hate speech including of elected officials all you have to do is a Google search.

    Here's a classic; Maxine Waters telling the tea party to go to Hell. BTW there's a longer version of the video (unfortunately I can't find it now) where she goes on to mention something about sending them there.



    Imagine the Hell there would be if a conservative republican said the same thing, but replace the words 'tea party' with any prominent black group.
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  19. StormChasee

    StormChasee The King of Potatoes

    Don't feel lonely with feeling WTF on that.

    Back to the thread topic AZ and UT are next.
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    He has a lot of public records. Business successes, as well as failures, and a lifetime of comments to draw upon. I am glad you agree with me that what candidates say is important.

    It seems extremely out of line to me. And we have talked about the idea of responsibility in this thread. I have never once suggested that the person doing the act isn't responsible. I have said this numerous times now. That was never in question - so you repeating that stuff while ignoring my question just seems like dodging the issue.

    My point, which you still haven't addressed as far as I know, is why some people think Obama is "at least partially responsible" but no one seems to be able to admit that Trump may also be "at least partially responsible."

    If Trump doesn't want to be called racist, maybe he shouldn't make racist sounding remarks? I mean, what can we judge him on other than what he is saying? I don't think it's BS to quote him and make judgements based on what he has said. Based on data, it's also quite clear a non-insignificant part of his support base may have racist tendencies given their surveyed attitudes on things like slavery, etc.

    Well, I was specifically asking about recent presidential candidates, because that seems more relevant, as I am sure you can always find some crazy stuff people said in all walks of life if you have free range. The question is whether it is more commonly part of the rhetoric for one side or not.

    It's also hard to judge if Trump's speech is not out of line compared to other candidates when your example is not of a candidate. Of course, it's not exactly clear if you think other candidates haven't been out of line in general and so neither has Trump, or if you think both others AND Trump are out of line.

    Either way, it seems weird that the kind of stuff Trump has said doesn't bother you but "go to Hell" does. When she is aggressive and acting like Trump and saying they shouldn't be afraid, you call it hate speech, but when Trump talks tough, you call it "not taking BS and throwing it back in their faces" and lament that people call it hate speech or racist.

    For me, the double standard is extremely clear after this example of "hate speech" while defending Trump's speech.

    I can certainly imagine you defending it rather than calling it hate speech.

    Incidentally, Lindsey Graham has told Donald Trump specifically to go to hell recently.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
    BurnPyro likes this.

Share This Page