... Without ap generation such as ready or opportunistic should be globally changed. Even if it's just by bumping the cost and not rebalancing. It at least allows you to run some janky runes that are overcosted and bad without running the risk of being completely screwed over for drawing them at a bad time. Alternatively, new ability: Lazy: This rune cannot be in your first 15 rune reveals (-x nora)
Eh, I wish that the speed stat got a kick in the butt instead. Perhaps untie spd so that it doesn't tell you how much ap you can hold. So for example if a champ could only hold 10 ap across the board lower speed champs wouldn't be hampered as much while high speed champs wouldn't be rocketing across the board and double tapping like crazy. It would also make more design space for abilities that effect the ap cap and/or speed.
Well in IS we got a few champs with +1spd for 5spd champs to make them bearable. I dont think ive run any 5spd combat champs, but look at skeezick whorl its an amazing cheap 5spd combat champ. Doubt it would be as used with 6spd and 10higher nora cost. Cant use to many slow units in a bg, 2-3 at max to reduce risk for crazy start draws. if its lumbering or 5spd or something else doesnt matter really.
I personally think that 5 speed champs should exsist if they are whery good in other areas. But... i think have 5 speed should have a much higher cost decrease then it does now. the bumb from 5-6 is worth alott not just speed but from taking fonts first turn. Right now as it it all 5 speed champs should get an extra cost decrease of atleast 5 nora
I agree with a cost decrease but I think 5 nora is a bit high, picture broken bones at 25 nora, wandering zombie at 60, death guard at 45, festering corpse at 25. I think tortun would benefit from this also. Also how would we deal with k'thir 5 speed champs, would only split k'thir champs get the decrease ?
I saw quite a few, but especially in UD - ones that made prompted the post were probably Deep Elf Fire Dancer, Temptress and Incinerator. What would you consider strong combat champs that have 5 speed?
Yes he has a speed stat of 5 but he has opportunistic so is not relevant for this discussion. Literally the first line of the original post mentions this.
Realistically blanket-anything is bad, I know this I think a few of those examples you listed were somewhat disingenuous, or maybe i should have clarified what I meant when i said combat champs. I was addressing things that need to use AP to move and attack as their primary function - runes that make up the bulk of decks. AoC, drummer, both guards don't really fit this. Enforcer has leap3 which offsets his speed, plus he doesn't really need to attack much. Crabsurfer has crushing charge which helps a little bit, but I can see the point you're making with him. Thrower and Wandering are legit examples. I wish we had a better database to use so i could come back with numbers/lists but this is not the world we live in.
I dont believe those count considering their primary purpose is to die slowly rather than fight though that can be considered a form of fighting. Tortuns are the main thing to point at for this thread. 5 speed combat champs absolutely have their place and with just how bad 5 speed is it constitutes that they must have a different design(and can afford greater power because of it) from other runes, risen moga as an example doesnt eat damage well but has multiple ranged abilities and is still on the cheap.
Just saying I pointed out tortuns above and cheap fw meat =) I run quite a few 5 speed champs in ironfist, fw, and k'thir mostly because of the bonus. I think the problem the poster is trying to make is 5 speed champ that are designed for engaging in melee with no other way of getting around and have no ranged attack. No pounce, crushing charge, leap 3, teleport etc. If that's the point he's trying to make I agree completely as they aren't viable in today's meta. Also 2x2 5 or 4 speed champs are probably the worst units in the game. Gnarlwood patriarch lifegiver k'thun hahahaha oaken defender pygmy earth golem lodestone construct needlewing- Would be very good if at had 6 speed, with it's current range and speed being engaged is certain death. Threw this in there because I like the rune but 5 speed has always turned me away. arctic turtle glacier rhino mastadon cave dragon
I believe Regulate's point is that 5-speeders with no means of AP generation or pseudo-AP generation (charge etc) are the ones that could use a love tap.
Think the main problem are 5 spd units that are melee with only purpose is combat. They are just so bad in PvP, and it feels like this discussion is only about PvP Look at Groble, 5spd, melee range 1-1, 52nora, 48hp, he aint worthless, because he has rock defiance, please hit him, he wouldnt be as good with 6spd and 60+nora cost Feels like 5spd-melee units are mostly meant for gimmick PvE bg if I look at IS 5spd units that is. but the most annoying 5spd in IS is probably Ironfist Paladin, so good combat stats, then 5spd and melee and only support upgrades. Would like a coming mini expansion with 10-20 champs revamped from each faction, just using the abilities that are already in the game.
