A BG based on sacrificing units... sorta viable? Can it become viable?

Discussion in 'Underdepths' started by allyorbase, May 8, 2014.

  1. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    So, I want to run Demonic Wags and Altered Lemures.

    I threw the four into a fresh BG, and I thought, 'well, while I'm at it...'

    http://poxbase.com/#!/deck/Ch_cqtCwMC6-Cj1cpqcd6cj8cg2ckncdFch5s6Gs71s4@s2HS7dsOsAsDr3zrAr20eNe1o

    Bok Warden is my Detection and can use Blood Offering on Lemures and Wags with low HP. Spawned units from Lich and Demonologst can be sacced for Eye4Eye and Avenging Flame, etc. Masochists for Masochism, although the Lemures and wags can also use it. Spellkaiser is for Cauterize, Relocate Foe, and general utility. Soulthirster loves all the sacrificing. The other Boks and Grimlic are splash. The aim, I guess, is to be aggressive with disposable units, backed up by Boks/Masochists/Thirster/Grimlic, and then pop the pawns for burst damage and to kick off power turns.

    Specific questions:
    • Do I need two Masochists? She just seems like a really good target for Masochism, so two may be silly.
    • Widowmaker might seem weird... I autoinclude it for Korona whenever I run her. Not sure if that's smart or stupid?
    • Ultimately, which is better for this BG: Fleshgrinder or Grief Fountain? I like fountain's foolproof heals, but grinder can contest, heal, and do immediate damage.

    Thoughts? Criticisms? Thanks!


    EDIT: This is the BG I've wound up with, after all of the feedback. Still a work in progress.
    http://poxbase.com/#!/deck/Ch_Cqtc6-Cj1cpqcd6cj8cg2ckncaMca+cdFCh5s6Gs5xs4@s2HS7dsOsAsDr2irAeNe1o
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
  2. Legato

    Legato I need me some PIE!

    Fleshgrinder isn't worth it. You don't necessarily want to use Masochism on masochist. Consider using Exile.
     
  3. TheNidhogg

    TheNidhogg I need me some PIE!

    2x Soulthirster are definitely necessary imo
     
  4. SPiEkY

    SPiEkY King of Jesters

    You may want to toss in a Vixen, as well.
     
  5. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    UDs gone soulcollection mad lately. I blame tiny.
     
  6. TheNidhogg

    TheNidhogg I need me some PIE!

    Soulthirster is one of my all time most hated runes. Can't recall any other rune I was so glad to see stop being played and then it's back :(
     
  7. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    Awesome advice from all... thanks!

    I had a Fountain in vs. grinder. Guess I will swap back. Great call on a second thirster and a Vixen. Exile will replace the second Masochism -- or should I replace the grinder with Exile instead? Only having 2 relics makes me nervous....

    Losing the Demonologist... there just isn't room for him, I suppose.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  8. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

  9. Legato

    Legato I need me some PIE!

    Use 2 Vixens if you can. Thirster isn't my style so meh.
    It looks pretty good now. Beyond this it's really just preference. Like, I'd run bane shift in this set since you have lots of viable targets and 2x Demon Lich.

    But again, from here it's really just playtesting it and seeing what works more for your specific purposes. I know I don't like it since more or less it's OD, but I have a friend who'd run a burnout in this set-- so try it out; tell us how it goes/changes.
     
  10. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    First game in ranked, I lost to ProfHulk playing FF UD Rogues. My biggest weakness is stealth, and... well... yeah. I got ganked over and over. Didn't draw my warden. Otherwise, I felt pretty happy for a good while. In another game now...
     
  11. Legato

    Legato I need me some PIE!

    You should have two wardens it makes sense. I really don't recommend running fleshgrinder, You could use retri or AF for quasi-detect.
    You should also have two sacrifices.
    and two maddening echoes, it's a two or none rune, imo.
    If you have fleshgrinder for the healing potential, consider using shredding bracelet for a more constant source, otherwise if you really want another relic I can't recommend anything other than Head of osarius, I don't even like Orb in this bg, as it's not worth it without enough fire based damage to keep it alive.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  12. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    I destroyed a Korona with a Lemure + Retribution. With that combo, you can just walk up to something while hidden, attack (to break Oblivion Shield), and then... boom.

    Won handily.

    Of note: Avenging Flame is insanely fun on Demonics Wags.

    EDIT: How are my spells? I like to keep a lot of options open for how I destroy my minions. I want to run burnout or a second maddening echoes, but... what to lose? Any thoughts?
     
  13. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

  14. RKane

    RKane Member

    Imp trickster seems a must for such a bg. It would require breath of ash to split it though. Also taken from another thread:

    Not sure how it works with a stealthed imp trickster, though i doubt it works amazingly well but the combo still works.
     
    caine1138 likes this.
  15. caine1138

    caine1138 Well-Known Member

    Trickster is an ideal candidate.
     
  16. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    Any idea of what to lose?

    http://poxbase.com/#!/deck/Ch_CqtC6-Cj1cd6cj8cg2cknca+cdFCh5s6Gs71s4@S2HS7dsOsAsDrAeNe36e1o

    If I include a Trixter by itself, then I could probably figure it out on my own -- maybe lose the Spellkaiser (?) -- but if I am also including a Breath of Ash (which I suppose would actually keep my minions alive and able to harass longer before being sacrificed), then I'd be looking at 2 runes to replace (or 3, if I am including two trixters).

    *kicks dirt* Shoot. It's fitting that I don't know what champs to sacrifice in a BG revolving around making sacrifices.
     
  17. RKane

    RKane Member

    http://poxbase.com/#!/deck/Ch_CqtC3BCj1Cpqcj8CaMCa Ch5s6Gs5zs5xs7Fs2Hs6Fs86sOSAr2irAr20

    Keep in mind it might be a tad outdated but should be a fun bg nonetheless. Keep these in consideration:
    - Its mostly a fun bg, havent ranked with it to see its efficiency. It lacks the options your bg has since its narrowed down to what a death benefit bg would look in UD, at least in my eyes, but there is room for improvement
    - I believe burnout works with summoned imps from demonologist, mainly why i prefer him. With him on the board you get a mini mischief module for tricksters and vixens as well.
    - I never use 2x mad echoes although this might be the bg to utilise them best. I tend to expect ppl will avoid the strongest point UD has spellwise, which is aoe2, thus why i opt for pillars. The amount of map control it offers is really good as well.

    Things id change but id need to playtest the tempo:
    - Flame siphon. Id say opt for the nefari siphon but to put them in ud have to drop the priestesses. Only go for the expensive option, being doomballs, if u want more magic dmg and flight but the flame siphon seems good in my eyes. Of course you d have to make space for the shatter spell.

    I believe thats all i can think of atm.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  18. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

  19. RKane

    RKane Member

    I use loyalty and summon for that extra damage but both could work. Keep in mind you can always run it with the standard lifedrinker and loyalty upgrades, although the more combos the funnier the bg gets. Enjoy.

    Last but not least. I count lemures as aoe2 spells rather than combat champs, mainly why im using more than 15 champs and only one echoes.

    Almost forgot. Above bg might be even better with summoners instead of priestesses, promoting the mini mischief aspect even more. If you utilise summon imps, id suggest casting AF as soon as its revealed on it, to recycle it faster.

    This would be the modified version:
    http://poxbase.com/#!/deck/Ch_CqtC4@Cj1Cpqcj8ct-CaMCa Ch5s6Gs5zs5xs2Hs6Fs86sOsAsDr2irAr20

    Kinda heavy on champs but since most of them arent combat champs its still ok in my eyes. I've included the imp familiar since trickster, summoner and demonologist are all wizards, plus you can setup an across the map AV on familiar on your turn with a little flame charge topping.
    Feel free to adjust to taste.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  20. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    Love it. It's pretty much a variation on what I was going for from the start. Thanks, again!
     

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