A Guide to Spiders

Discussion in 'Underdepths' started by Authyrtyr, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. MakarovJAC

    MakarovJAC I need me some PIE!

    Guys, I would like to suggest a rating increase on the Helltick. So far, the guy has been my most valuable rune at: font contesting, killing support, killing ranged, being a general nuisance, being a freaking tank, giving your opponent the finger while doing a backflip before falling between several oponents and riding on their guys. It doesn't look like it, but he's the front-line guy you can rely on. I don't fear sending him solo. Indeed, he has the potential to solo at least two champs himself. He deserves a better rating.
     
  2. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    I'll give him another take.
     
  3. Saranea

    Saranea The King of Potatoes

    Hi there :)

    I don't understand the low rating on ember wasp.
    Alternative damage, 7 speed, fire Volatility, heal deny and flying make a good setup.
    I agree he is situational a good or bad pick as he cannot fend for himself, but if you can keep him healhy (and stealthed) with max AP for a nova + dual fire blast it can turn games and give you much needed burst. It also works against shrines :evil:

    I also agree with makarow on the Helltick. It's an very good Font contester and versitile turn1 deploy. With leap 3 and defense 1 he is essentional a speed 7 and for a spider quite tanky. Life siphon keeps him alive quite well.

    I agree that pull + Trap spider combo is hard to pull off and more often then not lackluster. Right now I'm running the Trap Spider only once.
    And i deploy her not that often.


    I'm not sold on the 2x Broodmother 2x Soulcrawler auto include. With K'lzik that are 5 big deploys and that is pretty bad on most maps.
    But then again I don't play the spiders as swarmers.


    I would love to see you include "vital spells" into the guide. Like PoV, Superiority, Retribution, Shatter and Fading Recollection.

    At last i want to mention Night Blade. Ignoring deffense can be quite nice and unexpected for the enemy.


    BTW: how are you dealing with FW Vampyre vitality leech decks?


    Sincerly
     
  4. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    TBH I've been swamped with school (finals season) and haven't had the time to properly play with Hell Tick. The main problem here is I don't have a leveled one and don't have the time to level one. Having looked at him a little though I'm inclined to agree with a raise in rank I'm just hesitating to do it yet as I haven't properly played with him.

    As for Ember Wasp, I understand that he's broken, I've seen him one turn my shrine before, I just don't understand how to play him. My understanding of him was that he was a good trick deck. In my own build I don't run him but I also don't run Fire Blast. I run 2x Superiority because except AoO every champion in the deck is an Arthropod and the one sided nature and superior range is great (also I don't like CCing myself in a swarm deck).

    I haven't ever played with Night Blade but in my own experience the only champion that has trouble with high defense is the Spiderling. My other important attackers easily hit 40-50 Damage. If your defense protects you through that then you deserve to win. Not that the random non-surge spiders aren't intended to attack but I'm usually winning of my gigaton cannons rather than the "balanced" champions.

    As for Leech Vitality decks... I'll refer to my the 40-50 damage thing. My Kl'zik has one rounded a Demonvein with 100 HP.

    As for the 'Vital Spells' section you mention, that's not a bad idea. What is PoV? I'm sure I know the card I just can't identify the acronym.
     
  5. TeaNinja

    TeaNinja I need me some PIE!

    Hell Tick is great so long as you don't run into Fire or Acid. Everything else is a great deal for the cost. Hell Tick leaps, has absorb, life siphon, and anti-perseverance built in.

    I would never run Night Blade simply because spiders have Rust Demon for Sunder, plenty of perseverance counters, and poison for a little more defense reduction.

    PoV = Price of Victory. It's pretty good with spiderling spam.
     
  6. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    Of course, Price of Victory. I've tried it out before with little success, maybe I'm just bad at this game. It just never seemed worth the Price to me, I don't know.
    I ran it for about a week, pulled it out after I lost 3 games in succession to the life loss from PoV (they managed to finish off my shrine with spell damage without even needing to rush) after having already lost a lot of life from shrine scry.
     
  7. Saranea

    Saranea The King of Potatoes

    I use nighblade as i don't rely on surge but on the base spider and faced some high defense treefolk decks.
    It also works good vs the damn perservence decks.
    That's also the reason I don't have 2x Protect the Nest but 2x Fireblast.
    (Did they fix the bug that when you loose 1 spiderling sack no spiderling is spawned and the missmatch between the discribtion and the first spawn time of the spiderling?)

    I also agree that PoV is really what the name says - you win the game due to it (killing key creatures / kill their shrine / break the front) but in exchange you get very vulnerable at home. And that can backfire later.
    A very good powerturn is: summon a real spider next to your shrine that you don't need, (optional:cast eye for an eye), cast PoV then transfigure and use blood offering of your shrine.
    But i agree that an PoV is an "all in" move.

    Superiority has 1 weakness ... as half of your spiders are demons you have sometimes no real damagespell against demons.

    And to level a helltick is not that hard imho ... you can get 1 set of cards every ~4 days with the dailys. so thats 25 to 200 CP.
    And if you run the dailys just finish the shrine with the helltick and it should get ~14 cp ... even if you do it in beginners protectorate which should be done in ~5min on normal.


    Sincerly
     
  8. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    As for the superiority comment it's worth noting that spiderlings aren't demons.
    As for levelling the Hell Tick, it's not that it takes a lot of time, I just don't have any time to play Pox atm (I'm not very happy about it).
     
  9. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    Found some time to review the Hell Tick today. I think I might like him better now, I don't think I'll run in my build regardless but he's been upgraded onto my list of viable spiders. I'm now going to look at expanding the non-spider tech section as suggested. Then maybe I'll look at updating my Wild Hunt theme with the upgrade scheme that Gedden revealed to us.
     
  10. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    Tell me if I missed anything important for the "Other Runes" section, I think I got all the important ones.
     
  11. Saranea

    Saranea The King of Potatoes

    Well done :)

    Personally I run helltick with +1 armor instead of health, but that's personal flavor :)


    Sincerly
     
  12. travis

    travis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    why mindslicer boomerang?
     
  13. travis

    travis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    so, why the mindslicer? i just built a deck and am loving but found myself not using the mindslicer
     
  14. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    I run mindslicer because it's a good damage spell and interacts well with Kl'zik's propagate. I can understand if you don't want to use it because of the difficulty of using it but I've found it to be highly effective. It's really good for high single target damage and has a relatively low nora cost.
     
  15. travis

    travis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    i bought 2 phase spiders and understand the concept of running the fonts, but why do they loose health every turn?
     
  16. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    Read corporeal form. It has them lose 5 HP each turn. I usually make them corporeal as soon as I play them and then once they've been engaged by the enemy allow them to stay incorporeal to prevent damage.
     
  17. IceHippo

    IceHippo Active Member

    Great guide, I may consider trying a variation on this. I just wish there were more KF Arthros as Tree Spider(Cocoon spam!, windstriker, habitation, omnivore, and good upgrade choices) is an excellent rune and would work great with this theme but sadly the only other choice is Tireless Harvester which, quite frankly, does not do much for me, though it is slightly cheaper now than I remember. Maybe I can try and throw something together, though I doubt the synergy would be all that great :(

    Note to owls: A few more KF Arthros please! Also, why is Faeguard Nullbeast not an Arthropod?
     
  18. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    Agreed on KF arthropods. Nullbeast would be a good candidate. UD/SL is the only variant that's ever really worked. Back when he had Whirl of Blades I would throw arachnablade on Aspect of Violence and steam roll just about anything.
     
  19. IceHippo

    IceHippo Active Member

    I'd just like to add to the KF Arthropod details, the Tireless Harvester is actually a decent rune in an Arthropod BG as once it has been cocooned and gains multi attack it's a 12dmg flying, often stealthed(Especially if you use your nightfall right) flying accumulator of insane amounts of nora and can, if it gets a globe attack 3 times in a turn and if you manage to kill 2 enemies with it in one round, well, you just won and gained something approaching 60-90 nora.

    Unfortunately, the KF/UD Arthro split is a bit weak, but I've been having a lot of fun in SP running one and feel that it's about 2-4 KF runes away from being viable, preferably at least one that has a moderate ranged attack akin to the Soulcrawler's and detection, perhaps some kind of giant cricket with sonic attack :). Then, make the Faeguard Arthropod with Creep and Crawl, probably change it around a strategically to make it less fairy-centric while not banishing it from that theme, and then it's probably an adequate theme, though it definitely could use more runes, perhaps this one http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/stick-bug-kf-champ.119/ as well!

    I'll probably play a few MP games with what I have and post a thread in the split faction forum at some point in the next week with more concise thoughts and propositions.
     
  20. mario75

    mario75 The King of Potatoes

Share This Page