Arctic Delegate and Lonx Chieftain What Gives?

Discussion in 'Savage Tundra' started by Braxzee, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    After Calisk brought up Chronomancer it brought my attention to these two champs. Two legendary champs with nothing or a bad ability added to their base. Arctic delegate has zero base abilities and Lonx Chieftain has camaraderie which is not stackable. Any one have ideas on this?

    I have one for Arctic Delegate that is easy, put Annex on as her base or Ice Amp. As far as a wizardy type upgrade to replace it I have nothing as of yet.
     
  2. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Delegate used to have annex not quite sure why it was removed.

    From my understanding chieftam was redesigned by basket, so it's utterly worthless now, even if that's not the case it's one of the worst exotic champs in the faction currently.
     
  3. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    I just do not know how they let Legendary champs go with out any base abilities. I do not count Camaraderie unless it is on a hero or a unique champ. Heh it prolly cost 6 nora to have it on so you just break even most of the time. The champ still has to survive to get to 3 or 4 deploys
     
  4. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Well camaraderie actually used to be a great ability. I believe it was -7.

    I think -3 is a bit on the weak side i'd put it back up -5 and see how that does imo

    Chiefes old design was aid defense, that was his role in the lonx synergy, now he's really got nothing unless some amazing trapper lonxes come out to take advantage of pull.
     
  5. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    I remember when he also had multi attack as well with aid defense....he got nerfed cried and then the new exo lonx took his place weird
     
  6. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    wot. Camraderie is a great ability. And a 6 range vindictive unit that was gloabally giving out defense was a problem so don't act like lonx wanderer is at all like the old chieftain cause its not even close.
     
  7. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    cam is a garbage ability lol

    i rank it somewhere between dodge 1 and leap 2 for how low tier of an ability it is.

    as for chief if the combination of his old abilities were that bad, then tweak them down don't completely remove all semblance of his original design and turn him into this trash.

    he could of easily lost vindictive and kept his role, or even tweaked his damage down so he wasn't as useful on offense even with vindictive, their are many ways he could of been edged down rather then dragged behind the shed and shot by a nerf rifle.

    his only hope of seeing play now is if lonx get some amazing trapper units where pull suddenly becomes a key ability in theme.
     
  8. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    how is an ability that costs 5 nora and will save you 3 nora with each deploy garbage? Honestly its literally nothing but an efficiency buff which is never anything but good. Suppose you're gonna tell me defender is bad next.

    Why should those abilities get nerfed for the sake of 1 unit, instead of the obvious solution which is what they did. The range hits make this incredibly obvious its not hard to see why it no longer has aid defense either. And pull is literally always a good ability. as is drudgery and improve speed.
     
  9. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    its garbage due to the effect it has on the match, and the fact that for a minor back loaded conditional nora advantage it pisses on the champs efficiency in other themes that will gain nothing from it.

    after two deploys you've saved 1 nora, after 4 deploys you've managed to gain the efficiency of about half a nora globe. assuming it's not dead by this point you can just roll in that nora advantage.

    i can see maybe considering it on a very low cost support unit, but for some reason it's rarely on that, it's almost always on 70-80+ champs that can't come close to pulling their weight, thus losing any advantage gained by the ability due to the cost of the champs.


    I also never suggested nerfing any abilities, I suggested first removing vindictive, alternatively i suggested lowering his damage if vindictive was the issue, both far simpler solutions to a complete redesign for a unit you just claimed was too strong as a support unit.

    as for chief himself, a unit is the sum of his parts not the value of each individual one.

    pull is great but is a very high cost ability due to it's strong uses in other themes that can truly take advantage of it, like sp with traps, lonx currently can't do those things.

    drudgery is solid but it's not good enough to include an 80+ 9 damage ranged unit for.

    if chief was 70 nora i'd say his build is fine, but as it is he doesn't come close to justifying that cost.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  10. Regulate

    Regulate I need me some PIE!

    The only great unit with it is snake charmer, and that's only because you run two - one with boost one with cam
     
  11. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    Well one it does not stack. Why is this a base ability on a champ that is not unique or a hero? So really the cost is 10 Nora not 5. The other cost it eats up is the base ability slot of the champ. If it was removed Chieftain would be cheaper and or could have a real base ability.

    His true value in the past was he could relocate the enemy and then relocate ally at distance which was very valuable for Lonx melee beaters. Gravity well almost replicates this, except you will not use it cos you are keeping your expensive range champ at range and gravity well does not work well for relocating allies at distance.
     
  12. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    uhhhh wot?
     
  13. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    If you deploy 2 x Chieftains to the board you get the benefit of only one CAM ability - hence 10 Nora. If you wait until one chieftain dies you still are paying 10 Nora for CAM. Having CAM on a champ for a BASE ability that can be used 2 x in a BG is a huge waste. It really wastes a base slot on the champ.

    As regulate demonstrated it is useful on snake charmer cos it is an upgrade and Snake Charmer is also a 54 Nora unit that stays in the rear with the gear. CAM should just be removed from his base at a minimum if not all together. Remove improve speed other Lonx have that covered pretty well anyways.

    HIs range should be 2 - 4 with dragging attack and relocate ally with gravity well as his base ability. Something similar to it to represent a legendary unit that is able to help his melee heavy Lonx close the gap.
     
  14. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    So don't run 2? Its got 6 range and can pull enemy units. Its perfectly fine right now and there are many legendaries out there in a much worst state than either of these 2
     
  15. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Thats like saying an exo is fine because nora freeze exists.

    Ferren runner is 68 nora with pull, trickster, bubble, and night fall, serves the role much better as you seem to think pull is all it takes to make a unit good
     
  16. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    See that is the problem...A Legendary champ should be special enough to where you can run 2 of them efficiently and hopefully with useful upgrades to make them slightly different for synergy purposes. The other Legendary champs should be fixed like arctic delegate. Both of these champs are LEG and have no base abilities or a Base ability like CAM that negate each other out. Yet you see Skeezick Whorl with 2 pretty awesome base abilities that build off of the champs upgrades and it is a common champ.
     
  17. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    Read what i said again. He has several good traits

     
  18. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    Chieftain does not have very good traits for Lonx or even a ranged magical attack in ST. He is missing basic abilities for a LEG. Arctic Delegate is just missing Basic abilities for a LEG. If there are other LEG champs that need work then point it out and lets get them fixed as well. Who cares if other LEG champs are worse off than these two if they are all bad designs and over cost and do not fit in then fix them all.
     
  19. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    6 range, thats good
    global ability which drastically alters the pace of the game, pretty good too
    Makes stuff cheaper, thats also good
    Enemy relocation ability, also good.
    Lonx and ST in general don't have an issue buffing damage so his original 9 isnt much of an issue

    Arctic delegate doesnt need a bunch of abilities, it has a streamlined kit and if you add something like annex onto base you're literally just making it worst. Stall and heal make her perfectly runnable
     
  20. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    You right Arctic delegate does not need a bunch of abilities, She just needs one. Ice Amp or heal as her one basic ability would be better as a base and annex could go in the upgrade tree. If this champ was a rare and below her build would be fine. It is a legendary rune so it is not fine.

    On chieftain what global ability are you talking about? CAM I hope not it be better to have it removed. 6 range who cares drop it to 2 -4. ST all ready has options for range. To base a champ on the idea of what if buffs is a very bad design. If the champ needs buffs to make it useful than it should be buffed from the get go. Buff spells should make champs better not runnable. So really Chieftain is a 100 + nora champ to be runnable if you include the nora cost on buffs it can receive and you just wasted another BG slot to buff it. Chieftain is about relocate ally, relocate enemy champs via with dragging attacks and gravity well and providing Lonx a defense buff of some sort with some logistics synergy since Lonx have gone that route for some reason.
     

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