One thing I started wondering about when browsing threads and pondering the balance of pox is, how do you consider that a theme is out of line? Usually when I see a mechanic which is very difficult to counter, or a bunch of stats which are a bit "out there" my little red lamp starts ticking. But with themes it's a little different, many are able to compete at mid level, but only some of them can compete at the top tier. How do you decide, which ones are out of line there? And more importantly, which themes/bgs would you consider "top tier" and yet balanced?
Sometimes things are Over Powered. This is when an ability (etc.) is so strong that once it takes effect it will probably win the game. Sometimes things are Over Efficient. This is when runes (etc.) put out more for their nora than anything comparable. Often themes fall into the second group (sometimes you get themes like the original yetis whose ability allowed them to snowball) as it is usually a combination of synergies that push them over the edge or simple cost effectiveness multiplied by the whole BG (like the old, old FS/SL split, or original moga etc.). Judging is hard. I think you just need to paly vs it with multiple different BGs, play with it vs different BGs etc, so that you get a feel for how it handles. When you stop worrying about what the opponent will do, or what you will face and how to counter it, its probably because the BG is too efficient. That's my rough idea anyway.
In my mind themes are balanced when top tier players get close to a 50% win rate against other top tier players using different themes. The caveat to that is if a theme is using one or a few specific runes that are vastly more powerful than the rest of the theme. Then that is more likely a mid tier theme that has an overpowered rune. I believe it is nearly impossible to balance all of the themes at the top tier. Instead, each faction should have a theme that is viable at the top tier, and multiple themes that are viable at a lower tier. As different expansions are released, the top tier theme will probably change, due to new runes, buffs, and nerfs.
I would just like all themes within a faction be balanced with respect to each other first. if you can manage that, its probably not too far away from overall balance. and its a more feasible goal as well since you have faction reps who are very in tune to the relative power levels/popularity of themes within their faction, and they are getting focused input from the players who care about that faction. well yobi at least seems on top of it, I assume the other faction reps are as well.
Things are Balanced when they look like this. Yes, he has 1 or 2 easily received passive buffs. Like the Banner. Doesn't change the fact that he's a Multi-striking, Life Siphoning, 9 Speed Monstrosity who's damage can still go up from here very easily. Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about this. I'm NOT asking for it to be nerfed. I'm asking for Myx to recieve 3 or 4 champions just like this guy, but maybe sand related instead of water related. BALANCE.
He is 1 range unit with careless and no range defensive abilities, and a grand total of 1 def. Plus, those "easily accessible buffs" you talk about add 8 damage onto him, whatever they may be. 13 base, + 4 from berserker. That's his "un-modded" stats.
Ok, 17 Damage, that's fine. Show me another 17 Damage, 8 Speed, Life Siphon, Multi-Attacking Champion in another faction for 75 Nora. I'll wait. And while we're waiting, let's discuss how, yes, those buffs that put the one in the picture up to 25 Damage are easily received. Placing a Banner and running Pirahnids with other Mirefolk is not exactly a stretch of the imagination.
Things are imbalanced when more than half of their matchups are more than 5/5. Absolute stats are based on present context.
You all fellas have read past my point. I am not asking about what is imbalanced, that's easy to talk about. Symbiote, pirahnid, big damage, big defence yadayadayda whatever my average, run out of the mill meta deck can't beat right now. What I'm asking for, is to bring some bgs/themes which you consider balanced, and which could be a baseline for other bgs to compare with. Fx. I consider skeezicks to be almost perfectly balanced (maybe not the new gen, I haven't tested him much yet). For me, I can compare every other theme to skeezicks and judge their strength/balance from that. Skeezicks have clear weaknesses (low hp, pitiful defences, not many tricks, weak early game, no good in-theme detection) and clear strengths (great scaling, melee synergy, powerful range - insane powerturns). Usually there is a couple of ways in which my opponents can beat me, and I can outplay/outdeploy some of my opponents. But if YOU consider the baseline a skeleton deck, everything will seem overpowered. What would you consider the current "balance baseline" for the game?
even skeletons aren't my idea of baseline becase surge 2 is dumb. plus that doesn't even touch non champ runes which basically make every theme dumb. lets have that non champ rune revamp we were promised. then we can start talking baseline.
We weren't actually "promised" a non-champ revamp. At the time when he was asked about it, Gedden said that we'd already gone through a champion revamp and he didn't want to put the community through another big change like that. He said they'd make gradual changes to what needs changing instead.
He got encouraged because of Ctharia being deployed this turn (you can see the encouraged and impervious symbols) I wouldnt say deploying a 90+ nora champ and attacking 8 times with other champs to get this buff for one turn is that powerfull. If it is, nerf Ctharia I guess. I am sure you could find champs in every facion that look really OP with an additional 7 damage buff without counting in the source of the buff.
Right, so like I said above, ignore the buffs from Charia and all of that. Look at just the 17 Damage, 8 Speed, Life Siphon, Multi-Attacking Champion for 75 Nora. That's still insane, all by itself.
