OMG who cares this spell is a waste. I agree all globals should be removed Cos your champ that is in the back ranks will get so effected by this spell. Hah yes please remove all globals from game it would be a huge advantage for ST
I tested it. Was laggy as Firk and the effect caused crashes, past that my experiences were stated as above. Was there a buff i should know about because my tests were awhile ago.
Can confirm the card is extremely powerful - stronger than noraweave, and I suspect you'd agree that's a pretty nasty card. I understand the theory of where you're coming from, but it doesn't (at least in my games) accord with my experience.
can you explain how? you take 5-7 damage depending on amp per basic attack, it puts them 35 nora down immediately with no significant up front effect, you can bypass it's effect entirely with alt attacks. What exactly happened to make you think it's powerful? i get it's anecdotal on your part but anecdotal evidence at this point is at least something.perhaps you were interpretting it's effect on the game incorrectly, i've seen time and time again people point at runes and go....man that rune is broken it totally won the game, but if you really analyze the game it was something like marsh song giving a massive nora advantage or a spot removal like gale used at the right time that had the biggest impact, but people forget about them for the more obvious effects like ice stars which stick around longer, and causes you to think more about it, as that is required to mitigate it's effect. in the months i had been playing last I had it used against me three times, the first time it caused a grand total of 7 damage, which i took to score a kill. I think it was more his fault i took so little he cast it in a 1 vs 1 scenario in which i then used gale to setup a kill off a single attack. in total he was then down 100 ish nora after the loss of the champ and the ice stars and I was up a font second game I took around 15-21 in total i did 3 basic attacks+alt attacks(can't remember how much amp was n board) to kill two units off a frigid barrier to secure the font I was up about 180 nora by that point. third time I simply fell back to a defensive position an relied only on alt attacks for 2 rounds, relic contested the font as he already had the upper hand, put me about 15 nora ahead, and it had no effect on the game at all as I would of probably needed to fall back anyway after over extending. in theory there is a perfect time to cast it, something like the middle of a massive font fight, where they have no way to turtle up, and only have units with basic attacks and their offensive support spells are useless at this moment, and they have no way to out right kill your guys with said attacks, and you have full amp on board, but I don't think including it in hopes this scenario rolls around every game is worth it over better offensive options useful in multiple scenarios in every game, especially considering the amount of alt attacks in the opponents deck is a factor you cannot control and thus the usefulness even under ideal scenarios is completely dependent on th opponents deck.
Does that matter? Doubling your investment and two spells slots on a mediocre situational spell doesn't make it better. In my previous examples mentioned above all that really would of done is increase the nora gap in my favor. 2 casts of that spell is effectively spending a champs worth of nora preventing a deploy for no immediate effect at all. Hell at the point that they double cast i would just let them have the font or relic contest and full retreat i'm now 70 nora ahead i can afford to do it, assuming i needed to anyway and deploy a champ to be +1 champ on my opponent at that point you could look at it in magic terms as a 5 mana fog that still gives the opponent the ability to attack if they want at a cost, and requires you to discard an additional card from your hand to cast it
It matters, because it leads to a situation, where enemy cannot attack, because their stuff simply dies if they try attacking. I've watched DMR play it and it was effectively dealing up to between 1/3rd and a half of champions' health per attack. The slow debuff also heavily weakens any future chances of doubletap.
Again you don't need to attack every round and if you have a 70 nora advantage you have other options not to say you can't attack because there are ways to attack with basics and come out way ahead. Aside from that alt attacks makes it a complete waste of time since you can still use them. It's like running a ghost against a magic themed bg at that point. I supposed it's worth thinking about though your opponent has the ability to dive in to get a kill and then double up on stars to make the counter attack costly. Thus you need to position around the ability for them to do it, by prioritizing alt attacks champs, and storing spells for when they drop out of position and invest in this play.
Meh that's a confirmation bias at best he could win 40 games in row in amp without ice stars, and that aside I don't know the match ups or the opponents or anything. You could just as easily say he won all those games because of amp, or the new st unit, or frigging cleansing storm as all those things are in his deck. That said I'd love to watch some games and analyse it's actual impact, or just crush it myself.
40 games is a big sample. The fact he played 40 games and won them all by using Ice Stars specifically leads me to believe that your viewpoint may be flawed.
well assuming your right as I cannot see the games to be sure myself or do any form of game analysis on them and somehow ice stars won him all the games an he couldn't of won them without it, and this is the case in all 40 games( which is absurd even gale doesn't win me every game i play and it's the best rune in st ). there are a number of considerations before I would declare it op. 1)it could be surprise factor, such as when a new combo deck hits the field players don't know what to expect and lose to the sheer fact that you don't see it coming, I've had huge streaks with new decks for this reason, then players learn how to face it and it's win ratio falls significantly, this occurs frequently with new combo decks that often have significant weaknesses when played against properly. 2) meta adjustment needs to occur - this occurs when a strong combo hits the field but it has an easy answer that nobody is currently playing, such as a ghost deck requiring more magic units to hit the field or this rune requiring more non-basic attacks n the board. win ratio will fall sharply after something like this occurs and is a natural process within the development of a games meta. 3)who did he beat? i could beat some of the players playing the game right now with an unleveled moga only bg, any games he won against opponents like these should simply be disregarded from that 40 as literally anything could be used to beat them, on a competitive level balancing around them is simply flawed. all this said I highly doubt it won him all the 40, I suspect with player base as it is at best 15-20 of his opponents were any good playing semi serous decks, and if I watched the games I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of them were won because of superior positioning, gales, and/or swaps like most of st's wins, with maybe a few aggressive plays using ice stars as a counter attack punishment on unexpecting opponents
@davre I'd like your input here primarily because you're experienced with talking to Calisk and I'd rather not overstep my own boundaries. I'll just say that winning 40 games >in a row< with a deck is completely absurd. We're talking 100% win rate here.
sigh...you are short sighted. if get on and beat him 5 out of 5 times that's a 0% win rate so should it be buffed then? this is the logic you are applying to the situation, I mean if so should I buff gale because it's in his deck and he has a 0% win rate?. you need a broader view of the situation and take in a lot more variables then just his win rate with a deck as a whole. I mean in your book if he beats tiny 5 times in the row that means the same as if he beats FireEmblemFan00987 in unranked league
Out of these 40 games I watched 27 of them. What I saw was double Ice Stars pretty much disabling everything ranged from attacking at the risk of losing up to 50% of their health. The stars alone were impacting the board so hard you'd need divine favour every turn to make sure you can go even. You need to step your argument game and actually play, Calisk, because right now you're coming off as ST Hashinshin. I don't mean that to devalue your opinion, I just think there's some major dissonance when the only person to call ST fine is you. We all like to say Sok's biased towards ST but even he agrees it's busted.
again I'll be glad to log on and beat the deck if he's up for it, I said so earlier as well, though I'd be satisfied in game recording just as much. nor do I deny that it's possible to be broken, my point was you made no offer of evidence at all, all you've had so far is one guy won 40 games with an amp deck....historicaly the strongest most op deck in the st factions history...but it's ice stars fault....for reasons i guess?. that's not an argument, that's a confirmation bias at best as stated prior. I stated why on paper it's bad and in practice my anecdotal experience has been terrible with the rune both in using it an while playing against it and detailed those events out for you. you offered no details or explanation at all, at least till the last post, even at that i think mistakes were made on the opponents side if he went range heavy with basic attacks while he knew his opponent was playing ice stars and if he didn't well that brings us back to my previous point made earlier about people needing to know the decks tricks.
Skipping ahead over the argument... It works similar to noraweave, but it is more punishing (and noraweave is very powerful). It allows you to push in hard/overextend and hose your opponent's ability to fight back for two rounds. Noraweave doesn't prevent the loss of board state from their counterattack: to a large extent, ice stars does. Whether it is 5 or 7 damage is largely irrelevant: overall the damage matters, but the slowing effect is brutal. The bug where you can cast it and immediately hit end turn does not help either, frankly. I'd encourage you to try it.
I have tried it, but even if i wanted to try it more which I'd be open to, it's been banned so not an option. I'll admit I never tried stacking it... also working through the rune as I did in this one sided discussion I came to the same conclusion as you, you could push in and double drop to deter counter attack, all said though at least in my head i can think of numerous ways to avoid that play, it would be much like playing against a less threatening Mobil or that KF spell that causes pacifism. nora weave is interesting I have much of the same issues with it, never actually looked at it before but between the two I would say ice stars is better but I don't think I would fit nora weave into my deck either
