Basic Battlegroup Guidelines

Discussion in 'Training Grounds and Game Guides' started by GabrielQ, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    Hello, and welcome to Poxnora!
    In this thread I will compile rules and advice on how to make a successful BG that can be used in PvP matches, remember these will be basic guidelines and Poxnora is a game that is really complex, so don't expect to apply every one of the concepts here to every battlegroup you make, and know that, with the time, you'll develop your own battlegroup creation techniques as part of your learning of the game.
    Well, I hope you find this useful and it allows you to enjoy this game at its best.

    First, the rules.

    In Poxnora ranked format, two kinds of battlegroups are allowed, Full faction (FF) battlegroups, with 30 runes from a single faction and receiving a full faction bonus, or 15/15 split battlegroups with runes from two factions and receiving two split faction bonuses, in split faction battlegroups you get to choose what avatar do you want to use. >Faction bonus in Poxnora wiki
    There are some runes that belong to two factions, those runes can be used normally in FF BG's from each faction and when used in splits they count for both factions at once, allowing for more flexibility, this can be complex, but basically, if you have at least 15 runes from both factions of the split and no runes from other factions the bg is legal.
    15 IS runes, 14 KF runes, 1 KF/IS rune result: 16 IS 15 KF legal
    15 IS runes, 14 KF runes, 1 KF/SP rune, result: 15 IS, 15 KF, 1 SP legal
    15 KF/FS rune, 14 KF runes, 1 KF/SP rune, Result 30 KF, 15 FS, 1 SP legal for FF KF and KF/FS (you can choose on the rune manager wich one you want)
    15 KF/FS, 14 KF, 1 IS result: 29 KF, 15 FS 1 IS NOT legal

    By default, each rune can be included up to two times in a battlegroup with some
    exceptions like runes with the multitude ability and runes with the unique ability. Some runes have limited edition reskins that count toward this limit, so you can't include 2 regular version and 2 LE versions of a same rune in a battlegroup.

    Basic composition of a Battlegroup.

    You know that runes in Poxnora are divided into champions, relics, equips and spells, but a random assortment of them won't cut it. Champions are the most important pieces of a battlegroup, as they are the onely ones that can move and contest and capture fonts. The rest are used to some extent to support them in some way, for that reason, champions are the most numerous runes in a battlegroup, taking up more than half the slots available.

    Champion can be divided by roles and you want to cover some key ones to have a balanced battlegroup, you'll want:

    At least 4 melee champions with good staying power, with that I mean you need them not to die easiliy so with 4 I can have enough champions in the
    front line all times for the duration of the game, these are used to contest fonts, to protect your ranged champions from enemy melee and to engage enemy ranged champions given the chance.

    At least 6 long range units with good attacking power, because ranged champions have a natural advantage over melee ones and they will be the ones dealing the most damage, protecting your ranged damage dealers is key to success.

    At least 2 good support champions, with capabilities to increase the damage output, or survival time of your champions, a good support champion will make your combat champions better, making them to shine were they are best.

    Preferably 2 detection champions, or at least 2 sources of anti stealth mechanics, like global damage, Ironfist stronghold has answers to stealth in the form of unobstructed view (spell) and guard tower (relic) so that can free you from running detection champions. You can also try without detection sources, stealth is a common thing and can be really problematic unless countered,
    In case of slow themes, at least 4 champions able to move 7 or more spaces the turn after they are deployed, to not to be at disadvantage in some maps with your opponent able to capture important fonts uncontested or to contest your natural fonts with his faster champions.

    Once you get this roles covered, you have to fill your bg with champions until you have around 16-17 (there are themes like mogas that can run up to 19 champions) less champions compromises severely your chances of deploying a champion on your first turn and you may run out of champion to deploy if the game goes longer than expected.

    From your support section (spells, relics and equips), you'll want to include some ways to damage champions directly, in case you are short a few HP from a kill (remember a damaged champion hits as hard as a full HP one) and then you will want to include things to cover things that your champions can't, and things that are useful to win the game, like powerturn spells, cleanse, healing, etc. Powerturn is a key concept in Poxnora, and every faction has access to some form of it, anything that suddenly increases the damage output or movement range of your champions can be classified as a powerturn, winning with your champions only is as hard to win at chess, so you want the surprise factor to be able to gain an advantage over your opponent.

    The variety of effects available on the game is simply too much for me to list here, so it will depend on each theme/faction. A list of common things that you should include if available, counting both your champions and support is:
    Cleansing, to not to be too vulnerable to disables
    Champion control (CC), to have a opportunity to alter your opponent's plans by disabling a champion of forcing a counter reaction
    Spot removal, to gain tactical advantages and to deal with buffed champions.
    Shatter, or anti equip in general, this is not mandatory, but there are a lot of equips that can be problematic if not dealth with.
    Alternative damage, this is needed so you don't get cornered by a lucky resistance or immunity on a champion, magical is needed to deal with ethereal champions and is almost mandatory, and is nice to have even a third damage type.

    How to make a winning bg

    Once you covered the basis, you'll want your bg to follow a strategy to win, and you'll have to build for that. There are many ways to win in Poxnora, being a common factor in regular battlegroups (the ones I will be covering) fighting for board control.
    First you'll want to identify in which stage of the game your bg is supposed to win and build accordingly, for example:
    For a rush bg, you will use cheap and fast champions that don't require support in order to keep constant pressure trying to contest enemy's fonts to deny him nora and win by overwhelming him early, for this kind of bg you'll want damaging spells, spot removal, champion control and cleanse in order to gain tempo advantage by quickly destroying champions that cannot be replaced because your opponent has few resources.
    For a mid range bg, you'll use a balanced cost distribution of champions so you can fend off rushes and deploy constantly untill you reach critical mass by mid game and you proceed to the offensive supported by powerturn spells, equips and relics
    For a late game bg, you'll include a above average cost distribution of champions (or more champions than normal) so when you reach the lategame your board position is stronger than your opponent's, you'll have to include ways to survive through early and mid game and most of your support will be focused with that purpose. Lategame battlegroups ussualy rely on his champions to win the game so additional ways to keep them alive are also used.

    Second you'll want to identify and use synergies and combinations, these are endless and they change constantly, and it will be your job to identify them, but you have to look out for things like the following general examples:

    Global bonuses will be better the more champions you have out
    Damage and speed bonus are better on long range units
    Fixed movement bonus are worth more the slower a champion is
    Healing and growth with time abilities are a good combination

    Lastly, you have to include a plan b if something goes wrong, or include ways to avoid failure of your main strategy, for example, if available, a way to damage directly the shrine is a good plan b for battlegroups that focus on board control, a grow with time champion that can carry the late game is a good alternative for mid range battlegroups and a big scale powerturn can be the plan b of a rush battlegroup.

    I hope you have enjoyed reading this and that you found it useful, remember this is just a general guideline and that it may not fit everywhere, there is not a single way or recipe to build a battlegroup so experiment and ask other people to learn.
    I appreciatte any feedback!

    To see battlegroup examples and discussions check the following thread:
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
    ghklf, Gnomes, Alfodur and 4 others like this.
  2. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when running split faction runes in a split faction deck the deck builder will pick one of the factions to categorize it under to try and help you reach 15/15 status. May want to clarify that in your description. If my understanding is wrong please disregard this message.
  3. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    Tried to clarify that, it's any better with the examples?
  4. Authyrtyr

    Authyrtyr The King of Potatoes

    Seems most excellent.
  5. Heine23

    Heine23 New Member

    I don't know if PoxBase adds it up like in Manager but I came out to 26 SP and 21 SL. Now I have 1 UD due to Kiergana, can it be used in ranked?
  6. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

  7. LordRahan

    LordRahan Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I am really looking forward for you to continue your guide. Thanks GabrielQ for your efforts!
  8. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    Continue? It's already finished, but nobody submitted a battlegroup to analyze.
    Of course if you feel like I could add something let me know
  9. Burcho

    Burcho I need me some PIE!!/deck/c8qCu=ca...0cgtC9FcuAcuPs6Zsysgs4@snsAs5ar2Pr3Te2ge25e21

    I'm not good at making bgs and just threw this together. FW/UD dread. The librarian probably can go as I have one detect, blood magic and a bloodtracker plus I forgot shatter on the bonewings. I thought about a split hero, didn't think very long :)
    Looking forward to your analysis. (I have most UD and FW runes so don't worry about expensive versions, actually the bg is heavy LEG/LIM already)
  10. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    Thanks for submitting!
    I will reply with my analisis here in case I replace it from the OP in the future:

    This bg is focused around the damage reduction of dread to improve the survability of your champions and can reach the point of negating all posibilities of attack damage. If we start by analyzing the core dread champions (I know that angel is hard to get but I'll consider 2 for this analysis) Angel of death is a pricy but self sufficient champion, with range, pseudo melee and good stats, aspect of death is a squishy melee champion with soulstrike, that is useful when dealing with complicated champions, bonewing is a elusive beater with good damage output when flanking triggers and ichor multiattack triggers at least a rank, he also brings rebuke and shatter. Puppet master is a support unit with ap transferring and "global"
    support with mystic push and dread. Mystic push will become particulary useful difficulting the use of damage spells by your enemy.
    These 8 champions are pretty balanced so we can proceed to fill spots, taking into account the synergy and weakness of the bg. It's obvious that this bg starts to become good when there are a good number of certain champions deployed, so we will be vulnerable at the beginning, a good idea to solve that is including self sufficient champions and harassers, bloodtracker, spellkaiser and ethereal soldier are exellent choices for this, as they can be deployed early to stall and they also synergize nicely with dread, as they react positively to small amount of damage, as bloodtracker heals back, ethereal soldier build resistances and spellkaiser becomes immune. Other champions with these kind of abilities will be good, like calcify or regeneration.
    Demonvein is both a good early deploy, synergetic and he's able to carry the battlegroup if he snowballs so it will do a great job in this bg. A champion that work in a really similaar way is voidraker, just that she's a bit more squishy earlier.
    Those are all melee options, to fill the range spots, we will favor those with extra damage mitigation, like those with shroud, for example, elder bloodbinder, who will also synergize with our life siphon champions and will provide detection. Vaporize and life siphon will do a lot for the survability of the champions and more if we consider dread.
    The support will depend a lot on what champions do we use, for example, if you choose ethereal soldiers, a way to heal them will be great, being sacrificial dagger, steal life or tempest crown good options. As general concept, we won't focus a lot on powerturns, as the battlegroups wins pretty passively, we must be more concerned on dealing with early threats to survive a rush, pseudo spot removal like essence drain and domination will work also.
    I would start with a standarized version like this to start fine tuning:!/deck/C8qCu=CaoCpbCpLCoOCdPC9Fs6Zsgs2ls12S2Hsns86sOsAr1IR3TeN
    It may be a bit high on average nora cost.
  11. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    @singinsammy You are in need on more advanced battlegroup building guidance than this thread is meant to provide, post your battlegroups on the proper subforums and I'll get to you there.
  12. MadLotar

    MadLotar The King of Potatoes

  13. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    Not much to analysis, covers all the bases. Only things I would question is ol'sok (doesn't seem to be very impactful) and spontaneous congregation (It isn't helpful at all) I would replace them with alacrity and vicious harpoon, to get more powerturn potential.
  14. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

  15. Alfodur

    Alfodur The King of Potatoes

    Exelent article! Well done, Gabriel!
  16. Ginx

    Ginx Member

    It has been some time since the last post here. Was wondering if GabrielQ or any others are available and ok with giving help with a split bg. Posted it in the split faction section, but has literally no people comment on it. Which sucks, but happens. Anyways yeah. Anyone wanna help a guy out with a bg?

    This BG I made at first solely based off of some good exos I got in packs that seemed to be fun. Using this BG is quite fun and I have been having quite a bit of success with it. Now I am higher ranked (on the cusp of limited league) and I am starting to worry that this BG has too much "fun" in it to keep up with the more meta BGs. I have been able to beat a few limited league people with this BG already, and although I know it might be a difference in skill from playing (I only play 2-5 games a day so my total played games is tiny), I also want to make sure I am not making silly rune "mistakes" as well.

    Thanks in advance <(")
  17. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    point me to the thread, that bg doesn't have structure problems, but it may be lacking a bit in overall synergy.
  18. LordRahan

    LordRahan Devotee of the Blood Owl

    GabrielQ, do your guildelines change with the revamp?
  19. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    nope, they are still good.
  20. George №1

    George №1 The King of Potatoes

    So I've been using this BG for a while now and I'm really on and off when it comes to winning, I don't know if it's just a poorly constructed BG or I'm just not skilled enough for ranked play vs veteran players and would be very grateful for an analysis

    P.S I might have asked you a similar question in the past with a slightly different variation of the deck, I honestly don't remember and if I have I'm sorry for bothering you again.
    Gnomes likes this.

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