Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by kalasle, Oct 16, 2015.
Any chance you could post your version of the deck?
Seven slots for Big units seems like serious overkill.
2x raven wraith
2x essence devourers
2x short lived champs to repurpose
2x champs with shade strike
If you want to run voidhowler, run Genesis Lich w/ grant death nova.
Pulling voidhowler off when it's 12dmg is tough, it's a lot easier when it's 26 is so easy it's rediculous
Are the revenants from lich magistrate still real?
Yes. That's another way to rack up Vengeful stacks, although it's more situational and risky.
This is the current, tricked-out version of the deck. Not sure if either the Bog Zombie or Haunting Spirit will stay, but it's finally possible to at least test them.
I'll run down the changes from the OP:
+1 Anthropomancer -- He's a cheaper, less linear way to benefit from all the unit deaths, and he can pick up Graveyard globes to have some juice from the get-go. He isn't a big wincon or anything; Anthro is here for pure value. Because he has Attack: Magical and generates ability-based loss of life, he's also real good at picking apart annoying tanks or harassers on the opposing side (like all the Void Shield and potentially Haunting Spirits).
+1 Boghopper Zombie -- He's 31 nora. That's kinda neat. Unfortunately, he has absolutely no way to threaten for damage, so I'm unsure whether he will stick.
-1 Death Guard -- A good unit, but too situational to require 2. With his higher cost and lower HP, deploying Death Guard is a decidedly anti-value play, so he's really there for the niche situations where you need a mid-cost Bodyguard unit. Having pure sand for upgrades doesn't help.
+1 Haunting Spirit -- Similar deal to Boghopper Zombie. HS is also sick in some narrow matchups -- a free win button against a couple tier 2 decks. Not sure if he's good enough against players who pack sufficient magic, but he's in here right now to find out.
-1 Fleshblight Zombie -- Fun champ, nothing against him, but unnecessary. Essence Devourer and Wandering Zombie already fill his role. Just not worth the space, always felt superfluous.
+1 Ravenwraith -- A second Vengeful option after removing Vendetta. Having 7 SPD matters a heck of a lot for the big guys, because of the value relationship between DMG and AP. She's pretty good.
-1 Skeletal Raider -- Never needed the detection, both because the current environment is light on stealth units and because Festering Wounds can cover the few instances where they do show up. He wasn't strong enough in either form to justify the space: the Decayed Mercenary spawn is hot garbage compared to his heyday.
-1 Zombie Behemoth -- Similar situation to Fleshblight, although this time overlapping more with Essence Devourer. Zombie Behemoth is great after he lost the +10 manual, but he bring neither unique utility or special efficiency to the slot, at least within the context of this BG.
-1 Ancient's Protection -- Only need one. Two was too much.
+1 Repurpose -- Great for pulling extra value out of Berserker or Devourer, depending on the circumstances. It especially makes deploying Berserker offensively much more attractive, because if the opponent backs off and goes to neutral, the Berserker can then convert into a chunk of stats on the Vengeful unit of choice, or even another target.
(+1/-1) Throw Bones -- It was in there for a while and is now back out. Repurpose, for the most part, does it better.
+1 Soulreave -- Even better here than it may seem at first. Soulreave gets around the ever-prevalent Void Shield and other resistances of course; it also circumvents Arrow Eater against UD. But, it has a couple more particular uses that reward attentive play. First, it avoids Righteous Deflection against IS, allowing Serkan to attack with impunity into any target. The biggest trick, though, is breaking through Split Personality. Obviously the Vengeful units make prime targets for that spell, and it isn't too hard to read if you pay attention to opposing positioning and especially spell presence. Popping Soulreave -- because Loss of Life isn't damage and therefore can't be prevented -- will ignore Split Personality completely. It also gets through Mirrored. It also lets you attack -- hell, this spell lets you do whatever you want, it's the magical Christmas land of combat tricks. Unfortunately, it stops Serkan from healing from Life Siphon, and you can't kill relics or shrines, but those are the only downsides.
-1 Blight Ring -- Too slow and too expensive. That nora would be better spent on another front-line dork or invested in a super champ. Good rune, not quite suited to this BG.
-1 Vendetta -- Two units possess inbuilt Vengeful, so Vendetta doesn't cut it. I found it insufficiently powerful on the Culler. The rune is strong, but too space-intensive for what it does.
+1 Soul Reaver -- THE cleanse option. It jams up equipment on the supers, and you can't use it if they already have a BCS equipped. The on-deploy benefits are also negligible. All of that aside, having spot cleanse is worth it. Saving a budding super-champ from death, so that it may blossom into a beautiful wincondition, is better than letting it die, even if that means giving up the max HP from BCS. Mostly, though, this works best on Essence Devourer: not to save the champ, mind you, but to let it get one last laugh for 30 damage before going back into cycle. Soul Reaver isn't amazing here, and has definite dis-synergy, but it provides a unique and important piece of utility.
Would it be worth including Xulos in the deck?
Hm, perhaps. If so, it would be with the ~90 nora DF3/Tariff value setup. The deck already invests a lot into setup runes, though, so he might make the field too thin. Worth a shot, but no high hopes.
Ah, I was thinking of using him with Vitality Creation.
As a potential Vendetta target? Maybe. That 6 SPD really hurts, though, and he's already starved for AP as it is. At least Culler only spends 1 AP to heal up. If you mean just with Vit, then probably not worth it, Tariff is better if you want the unit for utility and value; Vit is a super-champ or trick setup for Xulos (though you could always test it out!).
Fair enough. Thanks for your input.
Soulreave also beats one with Nora yes?
Oh, right yeah, that too. It does everything!
I recommend you try one collection of souls with hex 1 and transfer life upgrades.
I tried out a collection of souls. It did not seem impressive enough to get a slot. How have you been using it, and what has made you consider it a good include?
I deploy him mid game when opponent has atleast 5 champions.FW is slow and builds up so your opponent has plenty of time to deploy many champions.Transfer life every turn to important champions like anthropomancer.When it builds a lot of damage i use it as a melee champion.
But why would you deploy that instead of just more Essence Devourers and cheap units? To me it was just in the same vein as Blight Ring and Fleshblight: an alright rune that doesn't do anything unique enough or strong enough to be worth the nora or the deploy. I'll have to watch a couple of your games to see what you're doing with him, I guess.
I deploy him after i already have essence devourer on field and few cheap units.
But, like, you could just keep doing that; that's the point. Why take the 80 nora detour? Have you found it to be really, really efficient? How does it advance your gameplan or provide utility?
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