Brutality BG ideas

Discussion in 'Underdepths' started by MakarovJAC, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. MakarovJAC

    MakarovJAC I need me some PIE!

    So, we have got a couple of game mechanics which in theory we can combine to cause massive B-hurt on our opponents and make them cry "NERF NOW!!!", which they do anyways, anytime any UD rune does something.

    My main idea is to try and make playable these mechanics since, welll, why not? We have nothing to lose, as we are here to kill some time before bedtime.

    I'm talking about the brutality mechanics. Right now the runes we can use in our benefit are the ones from the following list:

    Demonvein Vampyre, Imp Vixen, Deep Elf Fanatic, Long Knife Adept, and Pit Dragon.

    ...And pretty much that is all because everything is such a bunch of wussies which won't take more than a pinch to die. Not taking in account 30-40 from an enemy attack.

    The following list names all the runes we can use for synergy (and sweet, sweet Prot B-hurt):

    Brand of Brutality, Temple of Brutality, Mandate from Sheoul, Hate Leech, Masochism, Blood Exchange, Blade of the Snake, Price of Victory, Dark Pact, Purefire, Deep Elf Summoner, Deep Elf Priestess, Deep Elf Masochist, Hook Fiend, Deep Elf Infiltrator, Helm of Chaos...and I think that's pretty much it.

    Testing this against NPC's (because I have no better way to test them online...) I have made some interesting findings:

    1.-Despite the difficulty gap between human and IA opponents, any strategy involving the use of a Brutality rune is susceptible to nora, and number of owne champions in play.
    2.-Champions under the effect of a Brutality rune are susceptible to debuff. However, the damage increased by Brutality runes can easily surpass damage reduction imposed by debuffs.
    3.-Champions under the effect of a Brutality rune are heavily dependant on other support champions. Prefered support: AP gen, damage buff, relocation, cleanse in that order.
    4.-Champions under the effect of a Brutality rune make better use of its effects if they are capable of making multiple attacks per turn (Multiattack, Charged Attack, Blood Frenzy, etc)
    5.-Champions under the effect of a Brutality rune make better use of its effects if they have either Life Siphon, or Leech Vitality.
    6.-Brutality runes works better with strategies resolving around the use of as few champions as possible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
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  2. MakarovJAC

    MakarovJAC I need me some PIE!

    Now, let's get to observe how does the suggested champions have synergy with Brutality runes:

    Demonvein Vampyre: by most, the best choice there is for the use of Brutality runes. This guy's got it all in single, sexy package: Liphe Siphon, Leech Vitality, Boon of the Undead, Frightful Blows, 7 speed, AND Multiattack. Do not tell the Prots, they will whine until it's nerfed down to a Boneguard Infantry.

    Imp Vixen: the second best choice in the market. Leech Vitality, Flying, ranged capabilities, Soul Siphon, AND Soul Harvester 1 (just image what she can do with TWICE her bumped up damage).

    Deep Elf Fanatic: Manic, pretty much. I won't lie to you, he's as soft as bar of butter is, but he can attack up to 3 times per turn. He's also got Surge Demon, 7 speed AND Tormented, which is good to have, specially if you can combine them with some of the runes in the support/synergy list.

    Long Knife Adept: She. is. the. BOMB. Combat Awareness, Execute, Flank, 7 speed, AND SAFE-******-GUARD 1. This girl alone is a reliable vessel for a Brutality rune. Even if she will die after 5 attacks, anyways. Note: Safeguard is glitched under while the effect of Brutality runes. It still loses counters.

    Pit Dragon: Colossal. What? Look, if there is someone who can take twice the damage from Brutality and live to tell, it's him. For as long as the damage comes from small buggers. ALSO he's got Tormented and Blood Frenzy, so he's got synergy with other runes in the support/synergy list.

    Look, I know there are lots of more runes you would definetily put in here, but the only problem here is that they would require more, and more support stuff to do what these guys can do. Also, they are possibly unable to work along the Demon synergy we have here. That alone is an issue. A serious one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
  3. MakarovJAC

    MakarovJAC I need me some PIE!

    Now, let's take a look back at the support/synergy non-champion runes:

    Brand of Brutality*: The bread and butter of the strategy. Regardless of what you are inclined to think, use it ONLY on the champions suggested above. Seriously, you want a killer, not an easy kill for your opponent.

    Temple of Brutality*: Relying only on 2 runes is dumb, so that's why the SOE tards made Brand of Brutality. This guy is the other side of the coin. All your champs can beat the soul out of anyone within slapping range. So they can too. Use only when there is no other choice. Place as far from your opponent as you can.

    Mandate from Sheoul: The best since Blade of the Snake. Add 14 EXTRA! damage to your BRUTAL attacks. Upgradable up to 20 if Quest is completed (because it will). Cleanse is bonus.

    Blade of the Snake: The suggested champions are all demons, so you won't have problems to equip it. Anyways, the additional 14 damage on every BRUTAL attack is a blessing not to be taken slightly.

    Masochism: Look, regardless of what you may think, this runes is NOT meant to go on your BRUTAL champions. The idea is to keep BRUTAL champions alive as long as possible. If they survive, you have got a bonus strong champion. If for some reason, you have got a BRUTAL champion with plenty of Leech Vitality health, you may afford to play it on them for increased damage, free AP, and more champions alive for your next turn.

    Dark Pact: Since the strategy demands to play few champions, it's recommended to defend your BRUTAL champion from debuff and auto-win spells. This is cheaper than Demonologist, and avialable directly on the required champion. You can afford to lose a support champion, but not your BRUTAL champion in a Blink.

    Price of Victory: Did I told you this BG can be a tad reckless? Free AP, enough to make a BRUTAL champion with 6 speed attack TWICE. +5 health points is bonus.

    Purefire: You need it. Your opponent will throw everything he's got against your BRUTAL champion, so you will need a backup cleanse, or lose it. Also, it's cheaper than a Puppet Master, and a Nefari Griefbearer.

    Helm of Chaos: Impervious. This thing will make your champion survive long enough to do its stuff. ALSO, Tormented and Blood Frenzy champions will eventually benefit from the gradual loose of health. As a bonus, Leech Vitality ignores Inhibited...Don't tell the Prots, or they will whine protest about it.

    Blood Exchange: Experimental. The idea here is to use a BRUTAL champion with either Life Siphon and/or Leech Vitality to heal wounded support champs. After all, the other guy doesn't need it, he gets as much life back as he inflicts in damage.

    Hate Leech: Experimental. The goal here is to give a BRUTAL champion a chance to gain as much health back as possible. And twice the healing as normal is guarantee.

    *: I found out it's better to play the Brutalitys rune at least two turns in advance to prevent the opponent to take inmediate advantage from it. In case you need to act quickly, and you can afford it, you can play Masochism on a support champion and make a run for it.

    That should be all about the non-champion runes. Later I will talk about the support/synergy champions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  4. MakarovJAC

    MakarovJAC I need me some PIE!

    Now, let's look back at the support/synergy champions:

    Deep Elf Summoner: AP gen. Summon Imp is a good bonus as you will be playing few champs, so the free imp comes in handy. He's also gotten synergy with Imp Vixen. Do the math. Summoner's got Tormented and 1-2 range too so she can work as a another fighter.

    Deep Elf Priestess: Relocate. It's a turn worth of AP she saves in movement for your BRUTAL champion. Shatter is bonus.

    Deep Elf Masochist: She's the reason for Masochism. She can survive up to 60 damage. Better than two Bubble of Protection. But more importantly, AP gen and damage buff. Her Drive also has synergy with Tormented and Blood Frenzy champions, so you can take advantage of it.

    Hook Fiend: Enemy relocation, AP gen, and damage buff. I also think he's got potential for attacking, and to works as a decoy using Masochism. In one instance, against a real player, I used this tactic couple with Horrific Aura. The opponent could not finish him off since most of his champions couldn't touch him. And he got all the damage other champions received, so in the end he was weak, but hit like a truck. Also, Damage Aura 3 is a bonus. Which also triggers Tormented and Blood Frenzy.

    Deep Elf Infiltrator: Detection, Relocation and AP gen. You have to take her seriously. She can make a lot of damage even if her damage dealt is not that much. I'm also a fan of harassing unprotected fonts, so her Stealth is a Maxxarek sent bonus.

    That should be all for now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  5. MakarovJAC

    MakarovJAC I need me some PIE!

    In my opinion, these are the rune combination which work best with the effect of the Brutality runes. You basically must hit first. And make sure you can hit. These runes should help you to do it. I have done a few tests against real players. Demonvein Vampyre+Brand of Brutality+Mandate from Sheoul were used against several enemy champions at once. The opponent had to cast Essence Drain on the BRUTAL champion, and kill the "masochist" champion in order to debilitate the BRUTAL champion. After that, he required additional DoT to finish off the BRUTAL champion.

    I think it's got potential, but more test are necessary. It's not a BG easy to build. And the whole set up for a full offensive is very thought demanding. And you have to be brief and efficient. You can't allow your opponent to mob the BRUTAL champion.

    I had problems with it, but I think a more skille player should be capable of using this strategy with favourable resuts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  6. RKane

    RKane Member

    Didnt read every word but.... you cant hit what you cant see (eg, stitched concealer, smoke cloud, the spider). hint hint :p
    Also i thing brutality doesnt work on manic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
  7. MakarovJAC

    MakarovJAC I need me some PIE!

    That's why I put Deep Elf Infiltrator somewhere in there. So she detects, and relocates. If she can, even generate AP.

    EDIT: Been testing it against real players. Generally, I still lose due to bad moves and stuff, but whenever I avoid many, a BG using several of these runes still work. One rule I'm struggling to learn is to "check first". Wether the faction uses X annoying runes; or a champion might be under an effect, or has an abbility, which will give me troubles.

    Curiously, I also found several stuff I should add to the list above.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
  8. RKane

    RKane Member

    What I meant was you should be using more stealth mechanics.
     
  9. StupidJerk

    StupidJerk I need me some PIE!

    This was pretty helpful, as it gave me quite a few ideas.

    Brand of Brutality and Temple of Brutality stack. I'm not sure if it's triple or quadruple damage, but it's a hell of a lot. Additionally, safer tactics could include using Brand of Brutality on an enemy ranged/low damage melee champion to mark it for a quick kill.

    Additionally, Sheoul Demon is a pretty good candidate for the brand. It'll turn him into a nora generating monster, and most things won't be able to hit him back.

    Soulthirster/Soulbleeder too. They have life siphon and scale up almost as well as the vixen. A branded Soulthirster gaining Swoop is a pretty hilarious thing to behold.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  10. Burcho

    Burcho I need me some PIE!

    cast shadow while having some good own detection?
     
  11. MakarovJAC

    MakarovJAC I need me some PIE!

    Thank you guys for the additional suggestions. So far, I had to make a bunch of changes in order to make the BG more stable. I'm stil testing new ideas, such as including Demon Lich which seems to be an incredibly helpful support and attack champion.

    I think I should try testing stealth mechanics. Apparently, people is prone to play plenty of AoE spells when suspecting a stealth champion is lurking around. Also, they use to play spells and abbilities which randomly target champions in the vicinity. I found out that Supressive Fire, and that one abbility which makes attacks when a friendly champion is attacked doesn't work is the attacker champion stealths, such as in the case of Shadowstrike. I guess using Cloak of Long knife on melee rogues an rangers is also a good idea.

    That said, StupidJerk's idea of using it on Ranged champions seems incredibly handy. I should test that one later.

    And I also thought of using Sheoul Demon. I guess Horrific Aura used inmediately after Brand should help keeping him alive for next turn. Also, his disciple seems a good choice to have. And...that is all. I'm not really fonf of the idea of using the big eaters (Soul bleeder and thirster) because unlike the others, they are literally a sitting duck when it comes to defense.
     
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  12. Legato

    Legato I need me some PIE!

    Pro tip: use stealth.

    Good choices: LKA, Nightfall Spider, Imp Strangler, Minotaurs in general.
     
  13. StupidJerk

    StupidJerk I need me some PIE!

    Does anybody know whether Brand counts as a negative or positive effect for the purposes of cleanse/dispel?
     
  14. Legato

    Legato I need me some PIE!

    Positive, so yes it can be dispelled.
     
  15. yuore

    yuore The King of Potatoes

    BG Interestingly, a few days ago I got to face a player who used the brand of brutality and was very fastidious, even with my Deep Elf Manslayer kill him
     
  16. MEATMAN

    MEATMAN Forum Royalty

    works best in a UD stealth bg
     
  17. Fentum

    Fentum I need me some PIE!

    Stealth BG or imp strangler is nice.
     

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