I don't think a cost reduction is what he needs, with Loyalty and Burn 3 he is only just overshadowed by D.Fairy because of its greater mobility. I've been saying this for months and at this rate i imagine i'll be saying it for some months more; RAVISH IS A SHITTY ABILITY AND IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. Unless you specifically build your entire bg around death benefit which was nerfed into the deepest circle of hell last patch you cannot get a worthwhile return on ravish for various reasons; The AP cost is too high The cooldown is too high You cannot sac summons FW champions all have shitty stats so you will never get good stats in return Champions have to be at full hp, if you use it on a near death or even half hp target you usually get 2-4 Short lived was a solution to this but death benefit is god awful since last patch. All of these factors combine to make the ability useless, it may looks somewhat slightly useful on paper but take it from someone who has really, really tried to make this work, it is not. I made a mg recently with literally nothing but champions with Short Lived and Death Nova so i had a ton of targets for Ravish, the game lasted for about 40 minutes and i used Ravish ONCE. This is the problem, the ability's long cooldown, high AP cost, and underwhelming effect quite simply is not worth sacrificing a single zombie for in more or less any situation. In fact i do remember finding usefulness in the ability for cleaning up headless Wandering Zombies who had gotten stuck on walls etc, but that's it. If the devs aren't going to change the ability so it is actually worth using then they should just give him consume, i'd probably use him in that case. He needs a race too, i'm really fedup of these champs who are just 'undead', that isn't a race its more of a current status.
I think Ripples would be a problem because he has Invig 2. Using Invigorate every turn might be too much. Additionally, you could take Dictate/Spellsurge, and then drain allied units for AP, which would let this guy become real strong real fast. Might not be an issue, though. Maybe give Collection more base HP? Soul Linked is just a janky ability right now, it doesn't need to exist. He would be cleaner without it. I haven't seen anyone using Impart on the Matron. Impart should go, or at least be swapped to some numbers and wording other than the weird 1-5/1-8 setup going on right now. Admittedly, I'm a bit biased because it is one of the few abilities I don't have mentally cataloged, but there's probably a reason for that.
I see three possible fixes for ravish. 20% is too low of a gain to use on real champs. Increase the gain to 40%. With the current long cooldown and AP cost, it won't increase stats faster than something like Surge. Decrease the AP cost and cooldown to 2. That will allow it to be used to cleanup champs that are almost dead. Change it from a Sacrifice ability to a Destroy, allowing it to activate on death effects. This might be too powerful.
Yeah these are pretty much the solutions i've figured in my head, except number 3 as it already destroys rather than sacs
The ratios aren't the problem, it's the fact that you have to sacrifice a real champion for such a low ratio. The simple fact of the matter is that there is not a single instance where using ravish is actually advantageous to the player. If you have a low hp champion who will probably die soon, you use ravish you gain a around 2-5 hp and 1-2 dmg. Not worth it. If you have a full hp champion who won't die soon, you use ravish and lose a whole champion, 50-70 nora and probably board control to gain around 10hp and 2-3 dmg. Not worth it. If you have full board control and your pick of champions to ravish without threatening your position you will lose a whole champion and 50-70 nora to gain around 10hp and 2-3 dmg, still not worth it. A short lived champion has been sat next to your warlock for 6 turns and is at full hp because for some inexplicable reason you chose to do nothing with your short lived champion or your opponent chose to ignore it, You ravish it for however much stats and its worth it because you lose nothing but when the Firk is a short lived champion ever going to have full hp? I'll tell you, when you ravish it the turn you deploy it, not worth it. I'm actually interested to see if anyone can come up with a situation where Ravish is useful, becuase i am stumped. They should just make it a zombie clone of Sacrifice of De'lim.
@potatonuts said it well: essentially, Ravish will never be a good transformation of resources. Anything that could be Ravish-ed will always be better left as is.
If you have full board control and your pick of champions to ravish without threatening your position you will lose a whole champion and 50-70 nora to gain around 10hp and 2-3 dmg,you probably have the game won already, still not worth it.
I was about to say that when i realised even if you don't lose anything from destroying it, a whole champion is still worth more than a ravished one.
i added life siphon on upgrade instead of dot. And i also calculated that ravish seems weak. High Warlock. I miss him the most. Add Race: Lich, Zombie U2: Swap burn2 for Lethargic Add Logistics: Life Siphon base? He would land at about ~72n with Lethargic. -------------------------------- Lets see: Ravish unrealistic full health Death Guards with banner (11dmg 49hp) Ravish: 20% - 9 hp - 2 dmg 30% - 14 hp - 3 dmg 40% - 19 hp - 4 dmg -------------------------------- if ravish would get changed to 30% and CD3: High Warlock Base: 44 hp - 9 dmg. Now lets add unrealistic full health Death Guards (28n each): ------ after 3 Turns: 53 hp - 12 dmg ------ after 6 Turns: 67 hp - 15 dmg ------ after 9 Turns: 81 hp - 18 dmg (for 84n) -------------------------------- Lets go back to 20% with a CD2 and the possibility to ravish Summons: Skelleton3 unboosted : 9dmg - 15hp Summoned Fleshblight: 5dmg - 44hp We could "eat" Skeles for 2 dmg or Zombies for 9hp both with banner. One mysian Necromancer (84n) could provide Skele+Zombie every 5 turns --> Its the same boost as 1 Death Guard @cd4 If we would "eat" 3 fresh Death Guards with CD2 ------ HW after 6 Turns: 81 hp - 18 dmg for 84n -------------------------------- But the Split abuse potential? How about instad of Real units we use Summons only? That would drasticaly decrease the abusive potential. But sadly also our options for ravish targets -------------------------------- My proposed Ravish change: Target Forsaken Wastes champion you own is destroyed. This champion gains 30% of the destroyed champion's current HP and DMG. CD2 AP2 Edit: After the last answers, id say giving us back Cast:Repurpose might just be the best way to handle the problem.
For High Warlock changes, why no change Ravish for Cast: Repurpose (range 1, off course)? OR Make Ravish takes an upgrade ability by random from the target, like brain eater (as High Warlock was and ever will be a zombie).
since Cast: Repurpose is already gone from the database, i dont think this is what sok had in mind when saying: Keep in mind, as always, that stat/ability changes are much more likely to receive traction than entire re-designs. Maybe even changing Ravish is to much?
For vampyre changes, I'd like to see them more streamlined like this: Soul Collector (no lich anymore) Champion Stats DAM: 9, SPD: 6, RNG: 1, DEF: 1, HP: 47 Nora Cost: 67~ Champion Abilities Attack: Physical Soul Collection Dead Eater Assimilate Upgrade Ability Set #1 Desecrated Zone 1 Desecrated Zone 2 *base* Desecrated Zone 3 Upgrade Ability Set #2 Bleed Souldrinker *base* Life Siphon When I go to home I will update this with all streamline suggestions
High Warlock is a legendary champ that doesn't have curse. And this patch is supposed to cover about 5 champs so they say. Getting rid of curse on specific champs is more important. You guys can continue discussing warlock if you wish.
There's a ton to change in FW, but I second Tea: the Curse concern fits perfectly into the design goals of this patch.
Absolutely, if we sorted out the curse champions in one fell swoop that would eliminate a bucket load of our 'problem runes' all at once. High Warlock just resonates with me personally as it's the first legendary rune i owned and will always be one of my favorites. The current redundancy of Ravish quite simply fills me with outrage. I'd much rather wait another 6 months for a well thought out and effective rework than have another half assed pseudo fix by next patch, it would be my guess that's how he ended up in this spot to begin with.
So in regard to Curse my 5 votes: Risen Moga - Remove Curse, move Entangle or Zombie Apocalypse to base, move Ally: Shattered Peaks to U2. ZA and Entangle cost 4 and 6 nora respectively so this would not affect his cost drastically. Phantasmal Creeper - Swap Curse for Hex, then you basically have a wormy E. Soldier. Maybe too annoying? Anthropomancer - We had a whole thread about this guy and i think we can all agree that Curse is just one problem among many. Crypt Guardian - I'd like to see this guy with a race, Zombie or Skeleton seems flavorful and both themes can be quite relic heavy, I'd like to see Bulwark Skeleton/Zombie on him too, OWN seems kinda random. Collection of Souls - It's something of a problem champ in general, even without Curse it's still 80 nora for some cloud which floats around not really doing anything for about 20 turns before it influences the game. I like the idea of Throw Axe for Executioner however Rend isn't exactly a sandbag so i don't think this guy needs to be changed as urgently as some of the others. Crawling Corpse needs curse removed like it's a tumor but with skeletons being more or less unplayable right now i don't see much harm in waiting on this one too.
