Buying PoxNora Sept. 12th UPDATE!!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bondman007, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    The game is simply not worth buying (for production and development of this game). It would be a worthy investment if you had some other project that could make use of the art, but that’s it.

    The rest is trash. Sok completely ruined the foundation and structure of the game. It’s simply not ever going to make money. I hope people aren’t going to spend real dollars on an emotional attachment.

    Get the game for free and have the fans produce it? Sure, any hobby is worth it as long as it’s fun/healthy.
     
  2. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    Yep, pretty much.

    Game development (and probably life in general) is less about ideas and more about execution in most cases.

    Despite all the changes over the years to Pox, the truth is that the core is basically the same as it has always been, and most of the changes has affected the periphery, but the biggest issues has always been on the execution end, whether it is client functionality or bugs. While some changes have occurred from a balance perspective, they tend to matter less as they do not actually affect the core experience on a fundamental level. Some changes, the like revamp after DOG, did have some impact because it affected so much of the content so quickly, and it did mess with the established ideas of what runes did what, particularly the more unique champions/themes. That said, I have tried to fix some of that but as you are aware the impact has been small. But at the end of the day, Pox is still Pox... just with years of technical debt and an insane amount of content.

    The truth is that if the core experience is good, things like balance, whether there is an Avatar or ATK stat are actually secondary. We see this with products like Shadowverse which has some atrocious balance issues particularly in competitive play, yet still does well because it's still fun.


    And this is really the truth of it. There's a reason why game companies are mostly non-designers, because to run a company you actually need a lot of these other pieces. You can do ok as an indie with just 2 guys, but even in those cases the guys are wearing the marketing/programming hats more often than they are wearing their design hats.

    The last thing to remember is that nothing lasts forever. And it's good that things can be redone/renewed, etc. And trying something new is how we demonstrate that we have learned from the past, rather than just repeating things because it worked well enough.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  3. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    For me personally, there are lots of things I'd change if I could do it over again, but almost all of them don't involve the core gameplay directly. And I suspect that's true of most of us too - because whether Frost Cone does Frozen or Chilled really doesn't matter all that much at the end of the day.

    At the same time, the things I'd push for may or may not happen still unless I was the primary stakeholder AND there was enough bandwidth to accomplish these things - and realistically, that time would have been post-SOE acquisition... instead of working on a Facebook port, primarily, as that was the height of resources for Pox.

    The three items on my list would probably be:
    • Push harder for a more comprehensive free to play model, something that was JUST starting to emerge then
      • incidentally, holy cow did that stuff evolve fast right? when Pox first launched the iPhone didn't even exist yet!
    • Make competitive play a higher priority
      • from a balance/gameplay perspective, but more importantly from a structural support perspective, including constructed vs draft play etc.
    • Accessibility
      • this is something I've tried to address over the years, but it's only in the last couple years since DOG that I was given free reign to actually do it in regards to the ability/complexity bloat, and honestly it was too late by then
      • more importantly tho, this is about the New Player Experience and client/website functionality
    Ultimately tho, I will forever be grateful for the opportunity to have worked on this game and having known so many of you. I am good friends with quite a few people from this community now outside of Pox, and the experience has taught me a lot and opened many doors for me, and that I definitely wouldn't change :)
     
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  4. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    It's been shut down. It wasn't producing the metrics it needed for its investors to continue funding the project.

    But yes, it was basically a modernized version of Pox designed to be cross platform (mobile and PC).
     
  5. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    pfft....matters to me.
     
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  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    Well, it's not to say that NO ONE CARES, but the point is that those kinds of changes don't make or break the game from a macro perspective.
     
  7. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    @Sokolov

    How do you feel about the single player/multi player dynamic? I've always felt like single player was ridiculous and the real game was ranked play... but then lots of people seemed to like single player and didn't cross over to play ranked.

    Would you do anything differently in how single player was set up? Was it worth the investment that went into it?
     
  8. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Well, stopped by to see how you guys were doing - Pox is/was great, but what makes a game this good is the community behind it.
    So, ultimately just wanted to stop by and say:
    Hey guys, how is it going? I know I've been away, but rest assured all is fine and well. Hope you guys are doing fine too. Also, I love you all and apologise for anything I might have done to hurt any of you in the past.
    Much love and respect for all of you, even the ones I had arguments with. @JazzMan1221 I read your post, much respect. You can rest assured that in my mind you beat me at least a couple of times. Always a pleasure.
    On the subject of Pox, all things considered life is an exercise of learning to let go - it was pretty hard for me, but I let Pox go - hope you guys can do the same. Either way, props to everyone trying to keep the game alive, you guys rock!
    While we are on that subject, there was a point in time that it became clear to me that we either changed course, or Pox 2.0 would be the only way to save the game. That was back in 2015 I think. My only regret is not being able to have respectful conversations with people back then, I think I could have helped more if people were willing to hear me. Oh well, that ship has sailed, all I can say is that I trully hope we meet each other again during our gaming lives. Remember, if you see a game with a Warfoot/Pedeguerra ingame name, thats probably me.
    Im gonna check that Longsword game out, hope we can bump there.
    Have a good one guys.
     
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  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    That's a good point. While I think that there is a place for both, it is ultimately difficult for one product to do both well at the same time.

    Most games of this type are Multiplayer focused, using the single player to provide a path for free to play rewards, but Pox's single player was much more than that and intended to draw in players who primarily played single player.

    The problem is that you are essentially building 2 kinds of games, and the really good single player experiences require dedication and a different kind of design focus and design skillset.

    That said, it did have a dedicated playerbase, and there is certainly demand for such products - but it probably would have been better to leverage the lore and engine of Pox to create a standalone, single player product if one wanted to pursue that direction.
     
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  10. PoxBot

    PoxBot Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Sacrilege.
     
    Fentum and Sokolov like this.
  11. guokamoli54

    guokamoli54 I need me some PIE!

    cant they just leave the server running and not updated it? basically just letting it sit there for anyone to play but not devote any resources to it? I would honestly be happy with that.
     
  12. vvvvv

    vvvvv The King of Potatoes

    I'd also be happy with that. Could we get an estimate at how much the server costs yearly? If anyone who knows how this works could chime in, that would be great. Who owns the servers on which the poxnora client is currently hosted? What about the website? Is there any way we could organize a kickstarter (or something similar) to basically get the required funds from the small database of players that might still be interested to just keep the game running as it is? I'd gladly pay a yearly sum to see that happen.
     
    guokamoli54 likes this.
  13. Imba

    Imba The King of Potatoes

    Well, server costs are usually paid annually, and can cost anywhere from a couple hundred bucks on the low end to a couple thousand on the high (monthly rate, discounted for annual purchase). Thats for a dedicated server in a co location data center. But throwing pox up on a server in your garage is essentially free, however unlikely to support the bandwidth and storage requirements of a game like pox nora. I have no clue where pox server costs fall in that spectrum but that estimate gives you boundaries.

    Still, the server argument is a red herring because domain names also expire. I did a whois lookup on pox and discovered its set to expire in 2019, and since the company has dissolved there is likely no one around to renew it. So that gives a hard cap of a year or so before lights out, regardless of whether or not the server is still up.

    The only faint glimmer of hope is that the server and domain fees are tied to a personal credit card or bank account of someone from DOG and they forget to cancel it out when it comes up for renewal, which isnt an IMPOSSIBLE scenario for a team of dogs size.
     
  14. xaznsoulx

    xaznsoulx Supreme Dream Team 夢想 隊

    where you been big boiiiiiiii
     
  15. Bondman007

    Bondman007 I need me some PIE!

    Yep, Imba's correct. The Pox domain expires on Oct 13, 2019. So there ya go! That's the MAXIMUM time table anyone has to try and preserve Pox...

    Pox domain expires <- Who is search

    FYI: My last shred of hope to get DOG to do anything is to reach out to their attorney's office and see if they can help me at all. Will let you guys know what happens next week!
     
  16. PoxBot

    PoxBot Devotee of the Blood Owl

    The 13th? Welp. Goodbye lads.
     
  17. fogandsteel

    fogandsteel I need me some PIE!

    If the servers are left running, you still have a whole year to play. Plus one week.
     
  18. Bondman007

    Bondman007 I need me some PIE!

    2019 holmes... :rolleyes:
     
  19. PoxBot

    PoxBot Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Oh dang. Then we'll probably hear from Gedden before then.
     
    badgerale likes this.
  20. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    I don't get it
     

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