Cactuar Crate - Coalitions Edition

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, May 11, 2015.

  1. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Sounds legit to me.. ;)
     
  2. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    When can I expect this fix now that we're 3 weeks later?
     
  3. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It's in the system to be fixed. It'll be fixed when it gets picked up for a patch.

    Wish I could give a specific time/date, but that is not how these things work.
     
  4. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Disappointing that such a bug/balance inconsistency, well-known and seemingly easy to fix, wasn't fixed with the last patch.
     
  5. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    Nerf regal now?

    I thought all the consolidation Nerf's were enough.

    That said. Instead of removing the best part of regal, why not just remove it out of themes that don't need it. I.e. fairies, jakie(this is insane tbh ST never needed 25 hp on an entire race due to boost + regal and perhaps the biggest offender), skeezick(second biggest offender since its a heavy range theme with access to power spells)

    I mean it's so game dependant when it's on units designed with it rather than this brainless route you took with fairy trash design or units that would be deployed anyway (I.e. JFQ with her massive range)

    This is why I'm straight against consolidation. Everytime something is consolidated, the older competing stuff is axed hand in hand.

    I mean couldn't you have proliferated battle matter instead?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    How would you go about determining which themes "don't need it?" Some would suggest Dwarves don't need it - would you agree with that?
     
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It seems like your argument is that strong abilities are OK if they are in your faction, just don't spread it around?
     
  8. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    I was about to reply exactly like this.
     
  9. KingJad

    KingJad I need me some PIE!

    does Icewisp still need such a large modifier even after still life was nerfed.
     
  10. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    I know where your going with this... As you always do with me.

    I'm going to say it like this:

    Regal presence on the handler was never complained about ever, because outside of his boost role, he is useless.

    You release it on a meta champion.

    Suddenly dorfs don't need it anymore because instead of having to risk a slot to make or break your bg you include a meta unit that has it instead for around 30 more Nora.

    Now after you smash this ability will the handler ever see play again? Answer:No he mufoin won't ever out side of constructed melee oriented bgs.

    Will Gedden still be remarkable? Yes he will cause he has other upgrade choices that work with what he's trying to do.



    Also note, dorfs are also a phalanx strategy so of course they will be utilizing regal slot better than other factions in fact some need the boost. A dorf early game isn't the same as a skeezick early. 3 skeez (1 of them being the regal unit ) and you have +5 damage. That's from deploying only, dorfs already have to do hoop jumps with carouse(especially brew master) and spells to match that early damage, not to mention most of the champions units have subpar damage, speed, range, narrow roles, and no defensive abilities other than High hp, while a lot (barring units like ivory wing are exceptionally good) of those support units have little direct impact on combat(I.e. matron, beermade,medic, priest of valdac,dwarves Sarge) other than giving stats and ap to the units on the front.

    Add in the fact that you made dorfs equipment based and range nerfed euan and prestige to x spaces,them having ironwill and fearless(the most strongest interaction of the ability outside of the stats) though regal seems more necessary.


    Tldr: I'm an IS Zealot. Regal Nerf's will **** dorfs and less more than everyone else.

    2ND tldr: This giving everyone everything is dumb when certain factions really never needed it
     
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    You made a claim that some themes don't need it. I simply asked you to back up that claim with a methodology to determining it.

    I actually don't even necessarily disagree with your idea.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  12. Rokkushun

    Rokkushun Devotee of the Blood Owl

    PLEASE don't hit loyalty because of regal presence.
    FF has so little going for it, don't make it worse.

    @Sokolov
     
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Do you feel Regal Presence needs a nerf?
     
  14. Leadrz

    Leadrz I need me some PIE!

    I feel that with loyalty at 8 Nora,
    While regal presence gives a bundle of benefits (loyalty, fearless and iron will) For 9 Nora.

    Would be seen as very cheap as an ability that gives out loyalty alone.

    That is how I feel on this subject, take it or leave it, it's just an opinion.
     
  15. Rokkushun

    Rokkushun Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Yes.
    I'm unsure how though. As it stands it's something of a "Super boost" that outclasses all other boost abilities and similar.

    It's something that has repeatedly been deemed autoinclude in the racial themes it's available in, and has defined what themes usable simply because they do or don't have access to it which I think speaks volumes to it's power. It actually discourages theme diversity for themes that can be run with multiple factions.

    I've toyed with a few ideas in my head but nothing fits right, and in our previous discussions you know how..."wild" my ideas can be :p
     
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yea, so there are basically 2 aspects to Regal Presence. One, it is obviously efficient for what it does. Two, there are some good themes that have access to Regal Presence. In theory, two isn't a problem if it's costed appropriately, tho stat stacking has certain implications.

    The question then comes for units like the Dwarven Handler, which as @Anotherblackman points out, has its own built in inefficiency for the ability. My feeling is that we should not be relying on built in inefficiency of an ability to balance an ability, but to have the ability be balanced itself. Then, if a rune like Dwarven Handler is inefficient in this manner, we use modifiers to adjust him. So for example, Regal Presence could get +3 nora, and then we give Handler -3 nora (granted, this would buff him in Constructs).

    Interestingly, Fae's Regal Presence is actually on a 30 nora equipment that also gives Impen - which actually, nora-wise, serves to make it less efficient than Regal Presence on a unit directly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  17. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    I have been told Chronomancer was adjusted just for me. Just because I found a way use her really efficiently the spell shift ability was changed. Spell shift now lowers the cool down for spells by five at the cost of 8 charges. Desecration has a cool down of five turns.

    Again I will reiterate that desecration and other spell spams, multiple times in one turn, is possible only through Chronomancer's spell shift ability and optionally Ancestral Focus exclusively.
     
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I am not sure I am following your point.
     
  19. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    5:2 nora to shrine HP feels like the real problem there.
     
  20. Leadrz

    Leadrz I need me some PIE!

    Indeed it is,
    I'll trust you to know what you are doing with cases like Dwaren Handler as it seems rather fair.

    For the sake of discussion I'd argue that you are paying for the versatility of crown of petals rather than the direct amount of regal presence.

    I'd agree that primary worries about regal presence is the stack stacking and Wether it is appropriately costed or not,
    The themes that have access to it personally does not worry me on the basis that they cannot stack stats to an extreme outlier of the standard.

    The standard being derived by you of course xD
     

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