Cactuar Crate: Planar Disturbances

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    Matchups are probably the most fundamental thing about a tactical strategy game: a unit can be good against one unit and bad against another, and the big distinguishing feature between poxnora and other deck-based games is that it takes place on a grid which you can use to move your units around. This is important because it means that you can make strategic plays to outmanoeuvre your opponent and change undesirable matchups into good ones. A standard deck has about 15 champions. If 3 of your champions have problems with an immunity, you should move these psychic-type champions away from the immune champ, deploy another champion that does not have this damage type, and engage the immune champion with this new one. This may take several turns but it will result in you not losing the game.

    I hope this helps.
     
    Hierokliff, Etherielin and Tweek516 like this.
  2. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    One manifestation of this is that with pure card games is that pretty much everything can be bypassed in some way or simply outright removed. Cards are usually more one dimensional, and feature some slight benefit.

    In Pox, a "card" is really a suite of things - it's not really a card - and there are always a variety of reasons why it might be good or bad in a particular situation, and most of the time, outright removal isn't available or necessarily efficient.

    These differences aren't arbitrary, but stem directly from the change in "board space" to "tactical space." You see this sort of thing in most tactical/tabletop games relative to card games. It's also why games take longer, of course, as individual runes typically don't have the same impact as individual cards can have in a pure card game, for better or for worse.
     
  3. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    Right, so make LoL bypass Arrow Eater, basically meaning only FW benefit from this change. Your not by any chance a FW player are you?
     
  4. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    LoL already bypasses arrow eater. Proof: when I played a couple of 2v2s with @Slencer and he granted LoL attacks to my archers via Soulreave, I was able to attack and kill arrow eater champions just fine.
     
  5. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    he is, but in reality this is just him being dumb not bias
     
  6. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    It would mean all precision units gain lol, and it would not just effect others.

    As for @davre it's not like people don't understand that. My point is that it adds less tactical depth and more rng the more attack types and immunity there are period. That's just a fact.

    @Sokolov I mean, pox games mostly end by who can hold a mid font for 2 turns, with exceptions. Games don't last long unless the match-up is compatible, which they aren't MOST of the time due MAINLY to runes with 0 counter play. There are few games where positioning matter anymore in part because everyone runs globals. Is consistency not fun or something? I get why acid amp theme is fun, I don't get why random units have random attack types. Why should certain RANDOM units be countered completely by other RANDOM units. Like I'd be OK being countered if I was playing electric theme, but themes shouldn't have more than two attack types, it causes less tactic, more un fun rng
     
  7. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    My mistake, I think I meant elusive. Just woke up, brain not processing properly ;)
     
    Etherielin likes this.
  8. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 of the games I win the opponent gains mid for at least 3 of their turns.

    Also, wtf positioning doesn't matter anymore? Like just wtf? What are these globals everyone is running now that means positioning doesn't matter?

    I just don't understand you @DiCEM0nEY
     
    Hierokliff and Etherielin like this.
  9. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - Yeah i hear that, but that makes me think that "arroweater" should be the activate then it would actually have a surprise strategic element....the only people attacking champs with arroweater...didnt read the ability or misclicked. Arroweater currently feels like it's more of a "trick" on the uninformed to give damage only if someone simply cant read. If it were an activate then you could strategically activate it at certain times...then leave elusive as perma condition
     
    Kampel likes this.
  10. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    melee already has an equivalent if it goes that route in resoloute

    though resoloute has never been that great of an ability...but in st it only appears in the form of an equipment that only functions on a yeti so meh.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  11. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - Oh yeah ...that ability is also hampered by a range dominated environment...just due to "distance" and engagement status being a factor in this game.
    Sadly resolute is also on pride of sarnghaver...barb only clause spell which no one knows about because its meh and Ive hoped to rework it several times. Gives resolute and new assault. Not bad but it's not hidden since the abilities show up on cast.
     
  12. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    resoloute and in the same vein all melee only defensive abilities like reflexes would be much improved if they worked within range 3 like enigma shield or at minimum 1-2 range.

    as it is now any engaged only defensive ability especially one with a cd like resoloute just doesn't cut it.....that said i don't think people need more reason to run high range champs, so pick your poisoin i guess
     
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yea, which is why one of my proposals is to change it to something that has a tactical element to deal with (do you deal 50% DMG and give them a buff, or do you just not used ranged attacks?).

    Activated would also be interesting, of course, but I think that's more similar to Dodge/Block/Phase Shift/Turtle while the buff nature of Arrow Eater is a space less explored.
     
  14. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    I like the 50% dmg and granting ap. Granting dmg would be largely insignificant I think. Not sure what the ratio of damage to ap would be though.
     
  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Maybe. But imagine if it was +2 DMG permanently. Now you gotta make sure you are going to kill that thing or you are going to be in a world of hurt later.
     
    themacca likes this.
  16. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I do ask without arrow eater, and given that their are answers to elusive.

    doesn't this open the meta to more range spam, i doubt it ever can reach the levels of old due to how many mid fonts we have, but it seems like it opens up the possibility
     
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I don't see how. There are a handful of Arrow Eater champions, most of them Vothsair. We have a choice as to how to transition - some AE champs would get Elusive, others would get new AE, and others could get Dodge or Evasive, etc. Who knows.

    Absorb is a bit more common, but that'll have to handled differently anyway.
     
  18. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    well their are very few ghosts out their but everyone still needs to include magic champs to deal with them, like wise arrows eater forces you to use aoe spam like sl with cones bombs, sand spray etc, or melees that can take a pincushion while under the effects of a drain vit.

    in other words I could not imagine running a deck without an answer to ghosts, in the same vein i cannot imagine running a deck without an answer to arrow eater, but if arrow eater is no longer an issue, those strictly range champs like shardmasters and kaeyun start to look quite a bit better.
     
  19. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    The reason I use skull of decay instead of decay is because it gives a noticeable advantage for less risk. Elusive is too good for the cost vs evasive 3, which is why it is always taken (especially since it counters loss of life, for god knows what reason). If it was removed, people would take evasive more, and there wouldn't be "ranged spam". It would make them stronger, but unless they are already overpowered, it would change very little.

    For the same reason skull of decay is better than decay
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    But Elusive, Evasive and New AE would all still be fairly powerful against ranged in the same way that Incorporeal is not 100% shutdown anymore but still needs to be taken into consideration, as you say.
     

Share This Page