Cactuar Crate: Planar Disturbances

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    No because 1) client work doesn't involve changing how abilities function
    2) there wasn't much resources available for fixes that wasn't directly related to client functionality
     
  2. MrBadguy

    MrBadguy Guest

    I was playing it since I was one of the few with 2. You will only find his final SOE version, which was a nerfed one(for that same reason), at the old archive.

    Yeah. He tanks or runs into a font, dies, leaves 40-50 HP of meat behind and that is usually enough for him to get back into fighting position. more importantly, the point at which he dies, his CD is set to 6(IIRC) and that means by the time the one with the Reanimated condition dies, you can just play the first Coragh as your third. He is one of those champs that can literally do nothing but run into fonts, soak up hits and die efficiently in that regard. If he gets some aura hits and aoes on top of that, it only adds to his value with the only real counter being swarm, which is rare.

    Also, that's not an argument. It's just how it is.

    You're not (that) unintelligent. Surely you understand the draw consistency boost and combo reliability increasing if you can GW multiple targets beside Coragh. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but Gravetend doesn't have the full CD clause thing anymore, does it? You don't run the risk of the 15+ CD drawback anymore.
     
  3. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    gravetend does still have the 20 cooldown after death thing.
     
  4. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Yeah, it is an argument. Maybe people agree with you, but it's an argument -- you're making a contestable claim about the truth that isn't mere fact (e.g. "this champion has 6 base SPD").

    Exhume still has the +20 cd clause, and it isn't a risk, it's part of the price of reanimation. It isn't, as macca said, part of gravetend; that's the ability that reduces champion cds on deploy and death (and is currently on Toll-Taker, hence why the deck limit seems a bit silly: one of the most evident arguments for the deck limit was that a second Gravewatcher could negate the cd of the first after Exhume).

    And no, I do not see how being able to Exhume other champions makes Coragh/Gravewatcher better. The argument about draw consistency seems valid but marginal. Getting the two runes a turn or so earlier on average seems a benign sort of pleasantly for a combo that depends little on being played early and is subject to other considerations of tempo as well. Is there anything else that you think having a second Gravewatcher would do besides making it a bit more likely to get the two champs early, and make Coraghs 5+ a bit easier to field?
     
  5. MrBadguy

    MrBadguy Guest

    Really? I will have to test it. All it says now in the public database is:

    edit: Oh, Exhume has the 20+ CD. Let me check something real quick with Consume +Exhume.
     
  6. MrBadguy

    MrBadguy Guest

    Yeah. Nora globe resource inflation and big nora swings. Though if the 20+ CD thing is still there, you may need both of them for maximum Coragh spam.
     
  7. free20play

    free20play I need me some PIE!

    sokolov can you tell me why are some abilities like sermon,regal presence,bravery only work with race and not both race and class?
    even though we've always grouped up race and class together on these sort of skills. ( war cry,defender,protective and so on )
    i'm confused since we have class based themes existing in this game now.
    yet when i see stuff like this i.... i just don't get it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  8. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Balance issues most likely. Also limits the splashyness of certain runes (e.g. crown of petals has almost no use in Magic Amp as a positive equip, but a change you're trying to encourage here would give it loyalty on demand)
     
  9. free20play

    free20play I need me some PIE!

    wouldn't it be simple to fix that issue then?
    by just assigning ranks? something like with rank 1 working with race and rank 2 working with both race and class. ( and handing out the right ranks to runes )
    or is that too complex?
    and what about sermon and bravery?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  10. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Pretty sure Sok's been trying to cut down on ranks. Same case with Sermon and Bravery. :p
     
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Because we've not "always grouped race and class together." That's a faulty premise.

    Class based mechanics is something I have been adding more of, but most older abilities were keyed off race only if they were restricted at all (yes, some were class, but those were less common). Some, like the original Defender, weren't race OR class restricted at all.

    So I have been taking some of the older abilities that were shared race only, and adding class, but it isn't an "always" thing, it's a "new" thing. So is it possible that other abilities will get class added over time? Yes, in fact, Bravery actually was updated but the text change didn't get pushed, so it actually already works with class.

    At the same time, older abilities often tended to be SPECIFIC races or SPECIFIC classes (such as Sermon). These are a bit harder to change as the way the ability works checks the champions for a specific race rather than comparing (which means a structural change to the ability code), but they get done typically when I want to reuse the ability in another way. At the same time, there are use cases for race specific things like this in some instances - for example, this is why Surge: X is not just Surge with "shared race" because that would mean stuff like G'hern surging off Moga no longer works.

    But yea, in general, "shared race OR class" is something that's being phased in, but it's a fairly new trend, rather than "always."
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Ranks changing the fundamental functionality of an ability isn't really good design practice typically. Rather, higher ranked abilities should simply scale one or two of the primary axis of the original ability.
     
    newsbuff likes this.
  13. MogaBait

    MogaBait I need me some PIE!

    Hey Sok, what was the rationale for designing sweep to be 1 ap? Just curious if there is a specific reason, though not sure if sweep was already like this pre-DOG era.
     
  14. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    consume+exhume doesn't work because consume was changed to a 'sacrifice' effect.
    However if 'sacrifice' does eventually get cleaned up/removed then it would be relevant.

    I do remember coragh without warding and I did cast reanimate on him frequently.
    Back then though he was a much more formidable and efficient beast with berserker and non-capped bold.

    Would also like to see rider/respawns work consistently though.
     
  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I am pretty sure it's been 1 AP since forever.

    At the very least since the last time PoxPulse was updated, which was Vashal expansion:
    upload_2017-9-29_20-41-57.png

    It's certainly unusual though.
     
  16. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    How exactly is Ambush supposed to work? I think I've seen it trigger out to RNG 2 on a Trap Spider, but it only triggers adjacent (as description) on Dark Seductress. It also seems to be a basic attack, because it can cause DoTs from both champions.
     
  17. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    It only triggers in attack range within 2 spaces. So a 1-2 unit with it will trigger at 2 spaces while a 1 range unit will trigger at 1 space only. A unit with a minimum range higher than 2 can't even use it
     
  18. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    So sort of like the old Feint, huh.
     
  19. MrBadguy

    MrBadguy Guest

    It was supposed to go up to 50 in Sept 1 patch but it didn't go live and they cba to hotfix it.
     
  20. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    Maybe Vamps could get Phantom Dash + Blood Rage when within range of a bloodied unit/when there's X amount of bloodied (perhaps also make a clause when there's X amount of vampyres in play). Seems like it'd fit the dark swift blinking type of thing that vampyres have in the literature and the movies. Also, why not make Vamps the only theme that is immune to defilement? That would probably solve the issues that they have with Life Siphon, and it's not like FW or UD has a lot of cleanse in the first place.
     

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