Cactuar Crate - Ronin Edition

I just wanted to say that AP storage shouldnt be treated as lightly as KF players want you to - an unit with 6SPD being able to store 12AP total is kinda nutty. Im inclined to say that this mini initiative thing is good, although I think the cap should way lower, unless you dont want the draw win issue to go away. My suggestion would be 2 max space on FF and 1 max space on splits.
Also, with the nerf on Arctic and IS font bonus, I feel that FW might have now the best font bonus of the game, so thats gotta count for something right.
I have a suggestion, though: why not make ST and FW antagonists for faction bonus, with ST being "all champions deployed have +10%HP" (tones down the +10HP issue) and FW being "all living opposing champions deployed have -10%HP" (gives them a bonus used all the time, except vs undead). I know that Fairies or Ferren or Moga would have a hard time vs FW, but hey, thats how things go sometimes.

 

Bonuses that harm opposing champions are rarely fun. The player who has it feels like they aren't using anything, and the other player feels constantly put upon. Part of the reason such a bonus has been consistently discarded by the FW community, and the player base in general.

 

Dont know man, might be cool. I mean, a champ with 50HP would be loosing 5, etc. Its not that big of a deal and has an impact.

 

That would make Chopping Block decks easier to use as well.

 

Then you would run into a KF deck running forment and start feeling really sad.

Also, in your situation FW would beat the ST bonus (100 + 10% - 10% = 99) unless it was hard coded to cancel each other out.

 

Yeah, Idk man, this was just a rough idea. Either way, I dont think FW needs a rework, but it seems it will be done regardless, so I might as well chime in.

 

My Variation on the FW bonus was basically the same suggestion as in Sokolov's OP (%Nora and CDR on Death) but with an additional Race clause (X Nora refund for the next Champion with Race X and CDR on Death of a Champion with Race X).

Just as a thought -- what if all Faction Boni had a race or class or somehow theme dependent clause.
Random examples:

FW: Death Theme -- On death of a real Champion: Refund for the next deployed Champion that shares a race with it and CDR.
SP: Champion Spam Theme -- On deploy: Refund for the next deployed Champion that shares a race with it and an additional Rune reveal.
IS: Phalanx Theme -- On proximity: 6 (3 for Split) Spell Resistance if a real Champion is within 4 Spaces that shares a Race or Class with it.
KF: Spell Theme -- On a spell being cast that affects a friendly Champion: Friendly Champions that share a race or class gain +1 Speed for 4 turns (2 turns for Split). This effect doesn't stack.
ST: Terrain Theme -- On beginning a turn on ST terrain (ice, snow, ...): Champions that share a race with it gain a 1 HP bubble.
SL: Terrain Theme -- On beginning a turn on SL terrain (sand, ooze, ...): Damage Reduction to all Champions that share a race with it within 8 Spaces.
FS: Terrain Theme -- On beginnin a turn on FS terrain (water, mud, ...): Gain additional Nora.
UD: Melee Theme -- Range dependent: As it currently is.

 

Not a fan. I would rather see bonuses drive flavor, not themes. Intentional thematic focus - particularly racial - is fine, but I would loath the day it becomes the domineering force in the minds of players and designers alike.

 

What's the difference between the bonuses being centered on themes as opposed to the faction except for the fact that faction's have far more runes contained within themselves.

 

Agreed.

 

The distinction is between themes - sets of runes centered upon a particular mechanic or set of mechanics - as opposed to flavor - a broad aesthetic concept expressed through the simplest mechanics available. There is often a great deal of overlap. But, I would rather see bonuses aid in a general tenor of a faction and guide on that front rather than enable or fuss with the particulars of a set of themes. In this case, my most serious object to iPox's suggestions is the narrowness of that focus: races, terrain, and classes. The bonuses would become foci for future design, and I for one am excited about none of those general attributes.

Edit: Which is not to say that iPox's suggestions, or for that matter the fellow himself, are fundamentally wrong. I just think those particular bonuses would channel design down a narrow path that would limit the versatility of rune aesthetics in favor of mechanical function - that fails to excite me.

 

I like it up to KF. I am not a fan of forcing terrain into factions though, as while FS is "water" focused as a whole, Firk or Jellies for example are not at all.

 

They were just meant as random suggestions, not to taken at face value.
Feel free to come up with better ideas.
And I must admit, the Terrain Theme is there because I couldn't come up with anything better on the spot.

 

Thanks for the substantive suggestions. Sorry if my posts at least came across as aggressive; it's a design part of this game I feel passionately about.

Here's my shot at things:

I think AP storage is a poor way to go for KF. In actuality, it makes the play style more lock-and-load, focusing on bursts rather than actual speed from a turn to turn basis; it promotes turtling, in a weird way. I think faction bonuses are in an alright spot right now, but a minor scale back could work.

IS: 3/6 spell resistance (no change)
KF: Your rune-dock champions gain Init 2/1 (potentially too strong, would require reworks on current init champs, but cleans up design issues and draw win. Init is a lot of nora right now, which is why this seems strong.
ST: +4/8 HP (minor scale-back)
FS: 10/20% back on spell casts (hefty but situational - in-line with FS as a magic faction, more subjective change)

UD: +4 dmg min range 1, +2 dmg other/+2, +1
SP: 5/10% back on champ deploy (front load, minor nerf in exchange, keeps the math easy)
FW: On real champion death (either player) all your champions on CD get -3 CD, -3 to nora cost on next deploy, split faction is -1 (unsure on exact numbers here, want to keep it clean and consistent)
SL: +1/2 Defense (a situational buff or nerf, much easier to follow: nerf to >15 damage, buff to damage under 10. exacerbates some problems, so sketchy)

EDIT: After some quick math, that FW bonus is much too strong. The numbers should really be 2/1, and potentially tinkered to trigger off only the FW deaths. I realized that a single death could end up granting well over 15 nora in refunds, and - glorious as that would be for the mighty undead hordes - it would be way too strong.

Thinking further on it, I like the idea, but it needs way more tinkering than the draft up above. 3/1 might actually work if the refund was only granted to champs that stayed on CD. That way, it would be difficult to stack large returns. That interaction would actually encourage both cheap and expensive champion deploys, without crusty percentages involved.

 

That is a fairly big nerf to FS. In a 20 round match, they would have to cast 300 nora worth spells in order to make the same income, and that is not accounting for the opportunity cost for not having the nora on the first few turns.

 

It is, hence the double return as compared to champions. Again in a 20 round match, they would have to invest about 1/4-1/3 of their nora into spells to yield the same returns. But keep in mind, this set is intended to be a minor scale on to various parts, and FS has had a consistently powerful faction bonus for its generality. I don't think it's a harsh penalty, more a minor one as incident to reduced versatility.

 

@kalasle No worries, I didn't perceive your reply as aggressive.

 

Consider reducing the healing on holy ground to 6. As it stands, this is a terrain type that is rarely spread around because it is powerful, but can be abusive when it shows up. Scaling back the healing slightly would make it a more reasonable design choice, and less frustrating to play against.

 

That wasn't my point. I was saying that "Faction" and "Theme" are just 2 different types of grouping for runes. Quite frankly I don't feel like some of the current themes fit within the same flavor or aesthetic of the rest of their faction. Some prime examples of this are Creepers (Worms now I guess), Spiders (as much as I love them) or Dragons (SL is so phalanx-y and then dragons just want to rush out their all solo like and beat you in the face).