Cactuar Crate - Ronin Edition

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Jan 20, 2015.

Page 34 of 125
  1. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Between the 2 current options, 5 damage +1 is clearly the stronger option but I dont feel it is the right one. I think longer duration (5-6 turns), 2 Damage per attack would feel better but should likely be opened to Priests as well. And of course it should be cleansable.
     
    Markoth, Feb 10, 2015
    #661
  2. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    That really should just give the ability, honestly, but not worth the time to change it probably.
     
    Sokolov, Feb 10, 2015
    #662
  3. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Re: Crystallize

    It actually appears to have been fixed already when @Moles fixed the duration issues with Crystallize.

    So the difference between Crystallize and Stunned/Paralyze was that yes, they all engage you when they are removed, but Crystallize wasn't being removed at the right time, thus, if you Crystallize yourself with, say, the Jakei Elder, then someone could walk up to you, and you'd be "stuck" engaged to him the turn AFTER Crystallize wore off (because the game would understand that as if you had engaged him on that turn). This is because of some weird way Crystallize was being done in the code that made it so it wasn't removed correctly at the correct time. So you can't reproduce this by Hammer Striking your own champion, for example, because Stunned is removed at the proper time.

    Does that make sense at all?
     
    Sokolov, Feb 10, 2015
    #663
  4. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    it wull when people complain about players abusing it
     
    chickenpox2, Feb 10, 2015
    #664
  5. Tarth

    Tarth Devotee of the Blood Owl


    ITS NOT!?!?!?
     
    Tarth, Feb 10, 2015
    #665
  6. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Yes, you are correct. I think you misinterpreted my post because I was merely complaining about the only upgrade she will have, which is Cripple, and it does not fit lonx playstile of "hitting your face hard", at all. Lonx are not good at poking the enemy (but that will be explained on my post on ST subforum).
    *Besides, for some weird reason Cripple is bugged, because as soon as you hit a champ which is already crippled, with a Cripple champ, the defense is set to 1 again (as opposed to remaining at 0, for example). *
    Suggestion: make the U1 Shadowspawn and Stealth, for example, and U2 Cripple and Logistics.
    Also, the idea of different "ranks" for Sunder is good, but again, overly complicated for new players.
     
    Pedeguerra, Feb 10, 2015
    #666
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yea, I just made a ticket for the Cripple bug this morning.
     
    Sokolov, Feb 10, 2015
    #667
    Etherielin and Pedeguerra like this.
  8. Strings

    Strings Devotee of the Blood Owl

    It might be cool in the future to have an ability like sunder for damage.
    Complexity!
     
    Strings, Feb 10, 2015
    #668
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I am not enamored with it either, but I think it's worth exploring. I don't believe in complexity for the sake of "coolness" or "complexity" itself, but this is much more of an inherent balance issue with most on-attack effects. Removing from ranged doesn't seem like an ideal long-term solution whenever something like this occurs.
     
    Sokolov, Feb 10, 2015
    #669
  10. Strings

    Strings Devotee of the Blood Owl

    So turn it into ranks I guess? Sunder 1/2/3 (because 3's are cool) and distribute as needed.

    I do not like that idea, as I generally do not like ranks, but I think it would work. Generally, I feel ranks are messy and are more used to cover up design failings than give meaningful choice, but hey, I don't see that changing.
     
    Strings, Feb 10, 2015
    #670
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I am not sure the ranks will work here... there are problems with different conditions behaving differently stacking with themselves.

    Tho I guess Rank 1 could be 1 stack, and Rank 2 could be 2 stacks. But that still means future designers have to be careful about using Rank 2 on ranged.

    It seems like then you should be arguing for a design solution that doesn't involve ranks, which is the melee/ranged separation?

    Because right now, the solution is "don't use a bunch of abilities on ranged," also, 'don't give it on equipment unless you add a melee clause," etc.

    It's unwritten exception after exception.
     
    Sokolov, Feb 10, 2015
    #671
  12. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - I think in theory its very cool and makes sense... but I am VERY concerned that when a melee hits a champion with sunder and then a ranged champion with sunder hits the same champion after...the game would just break. I am not confident with the bugs we have that the game could handle discerning between 2 different types of sunder or much less being able to combine them competently.

    p.s. My guess would be if a ranged sunder champ tagged an enemy champ for -1 def, then a melee sunder champ tagged it afterward that it would just end up with an overlay of -2 def (not -3) .... and if reversed the melee sunder would hit for -2 and then the ranged sunder would just not do anything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
    Thbigchief, Feb 10, 2015
    #672
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    This is actually the least likely to break, as it is the same condition, just being applied more or less times. It's not different than how it works now really, only with smaller numbers.

    What WOULD be a problem is if the melee Sunder was -2 DEF, and lasted 3 turns, and the ranged Sunder was -1 DEF and last 1 turn or something. Then we'd have problems.
     
    Sokolov, Feb 10, 2015
    #673
  14. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Sunder would be -1 defense. Melee attacks would just apply 2 stacks.
     
    Markoth, Feb 10, 2015
    #674
    Moles likes this.
  15. Atherhog

    Atherhog I need me some PIE!

    Would melee stack on top of range? i.e. hit with range, then melee = 2 stacks? but hit with range, then melee = 1 stack?
     
    Atherhog, Feb 10, 2015
    #675
  16. Tarth

    Tarth Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Set hard caps for racial damage levels with range being locked in at lower values?
     
    Tarth, Feb 10, 2015
    #676
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    So the unit has 5 DEF.
    You attack with ranged. It gets 1 stack of Sundered (-1 DEF). It is now at 4 DEF.
    You attack it with melee. It gets 2 stacks of Sundered (-1 DEF). It is now at 2 DEF.
    You attack with ranged again. It gets 1 stack of Sundered (-1 DEF). It is now at 1 DEF.
     
    Sokolov, Feb 10, 2015
    #677
  18. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    I kinda like this idea, although I feel that ranged Sunder would just be a worse version of Scoured.
    Sure, you can double tap and get -2DEF on a unit, but Scour not only gives -1DEF, but it also gives damage over time.
    I dont think there is a way around it, really. Giving ranged champs powerful abilities is bound to be problematic, unless, of course, they are priced correctly.
     
    Pedeguerra, Feb 10, 2015
    #678
  19. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - I'm aware of how it would be intended to function......but... ------------------------> bug section overflowing
     
    Thbigchief, Feb 10, 2015
    #679
  20. Atherhog

    Atherhog I need me some PIE!

    Cool... so they keep stacking. For some reason I had it in my head that range could stack once and melee stack twice IN TOTAL. Now I understand - Thanks.

    This seems like a nice and easy solution tbh
     
    Atherhog, Feb 10, 2015
    #680
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