Canadians come to the US for healthcare

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by BurnPyro, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Discuss
     
  2. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    US has the best standards for medicine and it's the hardest place to get your liscence from. They also have the most cutting edge technology medically speaking so if you have the money it's the best place to get treated.
     
  3. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    "If you have the money" How sad is that, this is one of those things that makes me sad to be an American.
     
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  4. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    if nothing else that is the reason I was hoping bernie would win .... health care is a right not a privilege and insurance companies are the beginning of the problem.....but thats a different debate and we are deviating from the post.
     
  5. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I agree the root of the problem is insurance companies, and actually that is where a lot of our countries problems lie. Agree though, i'll not sidetrack the thread.
     
  6. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    Better product, worse system. When I was younger I had to get a surgery done and my specialist gave me two options: she could perform one type of operation for free or I could go to the states for a slightly cleaner operation (some 10 years later, that operation is now standard in Canada). My family isn't rich and I was aware of this, so I chose the former. I've got a bigger scar but no financial hardship. Living in a "socialist" country with friendly neighbours that are extremely neoliberal gave me that choice.

    Not everybody gets that choice, though.
     
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  7. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    I do not know about the quality of US and Canada but according to the European Health Consumer Index the Netherlands is top of the continent.

    spoiler cause big pic
    [​IMG]

    does anyone have anything that can compare scores with the americas?

    only thing i've found so far is just how the US spends thousands more per capita than other countries while sitting 6 years or so lower in life expectancy :/

    it is interesting to see how Belgium and switzerland have better accesibility but the Netherlands score better in the categoriesrange of procedures and outcome/prognosis I would like to see how those compare between US and Canada, the stories above from the Canadanians seem to indicate that the US may have greater range but lower accesibility.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  8. Andralexis

    Andralexis I need me some PIE!

    This is just wishful thinking.

    At least in the most recent WHO data Canada and most of the developed countries beat USA in almost every category. For example: your maternal mortality ratio (USA: 14 per 100k), for example, is between Kazakhstan(12) and Turkey(16) as far as Europe go; Canada (7) beats it by half, and France, Greece, Iceland and Poland (3) almost put it to shame. And I just picked the first category of the WHO 2016 charts.

    Cuba has better medical workforce distribution, and a higher ratio of skilled professionals. In Cuba all hospitals are run by the government, healthcare is provided by the state, and a lot of innovations in the medical field are done there. Just Google CimaVax (Lung Cancer Vaccine and Treatment, costs $1 USD to make) or HeberProt-P. I have a lot of close friends in the medical field, some of them have studied abroad, and overseas. It's practically an undisputable fact that Cuba does stupidly amazing innovations in the medical field among them, and all of them prefer to go to Cuban medical congresses and studygroups than American ones. Let's see for how much do you get CimaVax once it gets (if it does) to the USA.
     
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  9. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    While I appreciate the numbers you are posting this isnt entirely accurate, the big debate going on in the US at the moment is about insurance companies and how alot of people cant afford health care. Those people will have worse prognosis and therefore do worse than the average patient who is receiving health care. When talking about the ''quality'' of health care if you take those people into account you will obviously decrease the appearance of the quality the patient is receiving. The question of who has the best medical services to manage any condition is different from which country has the best medical care system because one takes the quantity of patients / population and one is about the best quality people would get in a certain place vs another


    Think of it this way if we are comparing 2 cars and you ask which one is better .... one car is 2x faster than the other car lasts 2x longer (its comparing different parameters)

    so to sum up Yes the US has the best medical capabilities but No it doesnt have the best medical care system :)
     
  10. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    it is my subjective opinion that even the best hammer head (in terms of material and physics) is useless if it cannot hammer a nail because it flies off everytime you swing it.

    Knowledge is only as good as your ability to apply it. the WHO and most organisations concerned are pretty clear that they share this outlook seeing that they look at large populations, a dictator could have the best medical capabilities. but if only he gets to use it the medicine in the country is still crap.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  11. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    ^^ pretty much sums it up perfectly :) on an individual basis if u had alot of resources US is the place to go but the medicine in the country is no where near europe's level in terms of what the average person gets.
     
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  12. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Good times are over, Trumpcare for all.

    Which ironically, entails not much for Americans. Damn boys
     
  13. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    Slightly offtopic, but what happens when someone has been shot and/or dying and they have no insurance or healthcare plan? Do hospitals turn them away or do they perform surgery and force the patient into a lifetime of crippling debt?

    I've never understood situations like this but I've heard this happen on occasion and it's disgusting.
     
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  14. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    if you go through the emergency room of most any american hospital, they're not gonna bill you till after the operation i think. which, yes, leads to pretty severe debt for being alive.
     
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  15. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    but do they tell you the price first so you can take your business elsewhere?

    if you are unconcious and cannot consent to life-saving surgery and they do it anyway do you still have to pay?
     
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  16. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    Technically yes and in the eyes of the law they did nothing wrong

    best practice entails that in the case of a life threatening emergency where the patient cannot be consented, the consultant responsible for the patient has the authority and responsibility to perform any surgeries ...etc in order to save the patient
     
  17. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    [*does not include financial responsibility] ?
     
  18. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    American healthcare is trash, Obama was on the right track but implemented it terribly, and put all the costs on the middle class. Had they worked out or removed shitty insurance we might start to get somewhere, you need insurance for just about everything you do in America now, and very rarely do they pay for Bane Shift even when you pay into it.

    Most people want everyone to be able to have healthcare, just not at the cost of putting food on the table or being able to have enough cash for their families healthcare.

    America has largely turned into a greedy cesspool, and ultimately this is why we got Trump. Not everyone loves him, but it was a message from the American people that were done with the horse Bane Shift politicians and we want something new.
     
  19. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    Dont get me wrong its a bull Bane Shift system anyways but from an ethical point of view a doctor has the responsibility to act in the best intrest of the patient when his capacity to consent is absent. If he were to let you die because he ''thought'' u cant pay for the operation then that doctor will lose his licence.
     
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  20. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    it may be in the patients best interest not to be condemned to debt for life, to not alter the course of the lives of their family in order to pay for the surgery.
    in some cases it may be in the patients interests ( expressively and repeatedly expressed and of sound mind) to die by euthanasia. I think you need to alter the choice of words for it to really apply to the US, it seems to be their point of view that a doctor should act in the interest of the patient surviving rather than their best interests.
    but I guess ethics and viewpoints can be different so I'll take your words on the ethical standpoint and remember they are viewed through a different lens.
     
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