Changes proposed for Leoss

Discussion in 'Split Faction' started by Pico, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. Pico

    Pico I need me some PIE!

    With the release of magnate, Leoss have become a fairly solid theme that can be ran competitively in the hands of an experienced player, yet they still face lots of problems at higher tiers of play because of there lack of cheaper champions and overlap in many champs skillsets. I feel making Leoss viable would not require a complete overhaul, but only changing a couple champions and a few minor cost/ability tweaks.

    Leoss Guardian
    A fairly solid yet under rated Leoss rune. He has a very high damage potential compared to many other runes of similar pricing, yet rarely sees any play in Leoss BGs because of the overlap in his role as a physical damage beater. I feel reducing his cost and giving him Call to Arms; making him more of a simple but tough as nails grunt would help him see more play.

    Proposed Changes:
    -Nora Cost to 68
    -Call to Arms to Base
    -DMG to 9
    -HP to 52

    Chirai Outrunner
    The flash right here. At 8 SPD with potential initiative, as well as boasting Evasive 2 and a strong base 12 DMG, this guy is not half bad for 83 nora. The problem is, the theme is full of champions in this price range, and this champion also suffers from being slightly speedcreeped (you can get the same speed for cheaper now, albeit not in IS). My proposal would be to make this champion a cheaper more utility centric font runner, by removing some of his raw statistics while retaining his speed.

    Proposed Changes:
    -Nora to 70
    -DMG to 8
    -HP to 38
    -Initiative 1 Upgrade replaced with Reinforcement 1

    Leoss Border Patrol
    I have no clue where to start! This guy is such a mess I really did not initially know what to do with him. He is overcosted, has no real purpose or role and has a pile of abilities that do not really do anything for him. So I decided I would rework him into a stealthy enabler who could stay hidden and then help initiate fights your opponent did not realize were happening.

    Proposed Changes:
    Nora to 72

    DMG 12
    SPD 6
    RNG 1
    DEF 1
    HP 44

    Attack: Physical
    Declare Target
    Pride of Ailur
    Sneak

    Upgrades
    Dodge 1
    Escape
    Mark
    Opportunistic

    Pantier Lurker
    Will Update later.

    Paragon of Ailur
    These changes would help solve some of the Leoss theme problems, while also making him more focused as a support for leoss, rather then someone who just grants evasive/reflexes and trains statistics; Which did not really make sense considering his lore anyways.

    -Grant Reflexes and Grant Evasive removed from base
    -Leverage: Leoss to base
    -Improve: Range to base
    -Upgrades to:
    Cleanse
    Empathy
    Enduring Aura 3
    Prognostication

    Wall of Ailur
    Commander and the small cost decrease would give wall a competitive slot in a BG because of the Utility Commander brings.
    -Nora to 88
    -Commander: Leoss to upgrades (Replacing Stat Bonus: Speed or Readiness)
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
    soulmilk likes this.
  2. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    double racial and improve range for paragon!
     
  3. RedScarlet

    RedScarlet I need me some PIE!

    Imo, i think before you try to adjust Leoss you should try and normalize Redfist and Chirai's speed.
    1st Turn Redfist gets 10 AP
    1st Turn Chirai gets 9AP
    maybe its because of IS's font, so Chirai is alr normal, but Redfist's 9AP (assuming IS's bonus is changed) first turn is such a draw-win especially in UD map's midfont (one on the bottom). If Bluefist is his counterpart, why is this guy moving WAY faster than bluefist? not flavorful for him to have Accrue.

    [although I do not have any problem in that UD map coz I can just focus on the top fonts. but other maps might have similar problem with 10AP champs on first turn]

     
  4. Pico

    Pico I need me some PIE!

    @RedScarlet
    Where did you get 70 HP for Chirai outrunner?

    And the HP:Nora ratio for Leoss Guardian is already pretty high at 56:72.

    I would personally be against Paragon getting Pride, it does not fit his lore nor would it fit his role as a supporting character. Improve range/leverage: Leoss sound cool though.
     
  5. RedScarlet

    RedScarlet I need me some PIE!

    oh i meant nora

    but yea i guess pride doesnt make sense since he cant really fight well
     
  6. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    a lot of potential that i like in your ideas... mostly lol
     
  7. Pico

    Pico I need me some PIE!

    Well the thing about the current border patrol, is he is nothing but overlap for the beater role, and he is cumpletely outclassed for it. He also is just a hodgepodge of abilities slapped onto a champion. Even with cost decreases-- Why would amyone run him over other beaters Leoss have to offer; And why should he not just help build in where the theme lacks most severely.
     
  8. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    Actually excepting mosharn and remnant he is the next best beater and he is also more mobile and gains 8 spd and psychic aura once charges are built up. I actually used him extensively to sit in the top 20 once he was introduced and before he got retweeked by sok and Before his Nora got jacked from 81 to 89 and he suffered through the ability shuffle.

    He is still the best most reliable / survivable source of an aura to counter perseverance
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  9. Pico

    Pico I need me some PIE!

    Mosharn, Remnant, Wall, Redfist, Bluefist, Guardian, and Bloodmane (Who I forgot to mention as needing a little help ever since the Pounce change) also fill the melee beater role-- And do it better and more defined then Border Patrol does now; My point is it would just be more beneficial to rework him into a role leoss actually need, instead of worling him back into a functional beater, because leoss already have excessive amounts of functional beaters.
     
  10. Radan

    Radan The King of Potatoes

     
  11. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    I can stipulate that due to his current design he seems the easiest option to rework into a stealth subtheme instead of a beater.

    That being said...

    The wall is a support tank that is horribly overcosted large and immobile and will forever be in mosharn and remnants shadow.

    The only thing guardian does better is be cheaper. Although give him call to arms and I'd actually use him but till then I won't.

    The fists aren't really beaters.... they have soul. The blue is used for cc and the red is font denial and stall tactic they have different strengths but they aren't better at sheer damage due to how they reworked the charged abilities. They have a lot of counters to their strengths with distract or restraining etc.

    Lastly blood mane.... the only true comparable and massively overlapping beater. It will be half dead before he ever sees combat due to impatient in the early game. The reason I like patrol better is it can grab fonts and harrass while the phalanx is getting built and bloodmane can't.

    assuming that he has banner warcry battle master pride motivate loyaly amped up..... all which he can get from only 3 other units out.... he will do 35 dam with just 1 attack and an aura. No other true beater can match that with 8 spd.
     
  12. Pico

    Pico I need me some PIE!

    Compared to your scenario, a Leoss Guardian in the same settings, Melee Specialist proced, Protective, pride, warcry, loyalty and battle master proc and the banner; He will hit 37. And the magnate can hasten him to 10 speed (assuming you took Melee Specialist 3 and Protective as upgrades) so that is not really an issue.
     
  13. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    I didn't count haste putting patrol at 12 spd... but with the aura patrol can counter perseverance can leap to hit a vital target and ignore terrain and can keep his damage regardless of enemy positioning.... it puts control and versatility in your hands instead of your opponents. I'll take that vs 2 extra damage. 3 since you forgot motivate.
     
  14. Pico

    Pico I need me some PIE!

    Your missing my point :/.
     
  15. Radan

    Radan The King of Potatoes

    @ sassquatch
    u want to rework leoss Guardain into a stealth subtheme or another champ?

    yea Mosharn and remnants is like de main champs/beaters in a leoss BG.

    i uses my red for block 2 and riposte n blue for Combo attack :stun n mutiattack. distract n restraining r de best counters for a leoss BG.

    Bloodmane suck since he got impatient. i stop using him when i saw that ability on it. i always think that patrol is better at getting fonts than chirai outrunner, only thing was patrol noracost which kinda make him unplayable.

    remember all those ability that can boost up a leoss dmg hav a range/limited space, if too close they can get spell spammed. Also patrol hav 7 speed until he get amped which give him 8spd also he lose 1 charge at the end of it turn
     
  16. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    No I get that the theme needs fleshing out... I think what you want done to him should be done to something else or else be an entirely new champ tho... that set of abilities and direction seems better served to me by being blended onto the lurker.
     
  17. Radan

    Radan The King of Potatoes

    yea leoss lurker can get Guardian base abilities, sum of lurker abilities kinda suck. call to arms is better on a ranged champ agree?

    for stealth leoss it hav lurker n pantier would there be need for more stealthed champs?

    maybe Paragon of Ailur can get cleansing aura and shatter (either can be base n other can be a option for upgrade ability), only upgrade ability i see good on him is counterrange

    i think if almost all leoss nora cost get reduced by 2, they might be playable, if de leoss nora is 80 or more.
     
  18. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    @Radan
    Actually I agree with Pico s direction for guardian... rather he should do to the lurker what he wants for the patrol.

    My major goal for the patrol is to get his cost down to 79ish and keep him as the primary mobile/fast beater. (I consider remnants tanks and mosharn unplayable due to the necessity of Hraken and too few range options) of course something may have to give in stats for this
     
  19. Pico

    Pico I need me some PIE!

    @Radan
    I could see Paragon having cleansing aura, it might be too strong though; I don't like jack of all trades supports

    @sassquatch
    You see the thing is, I don't see that skillset as fitting for lurker as the Pantier are not supposed to be very controlled fight oriented, for Pantier I was thinking of a cheaper font harasser with knockout and such. And I also disagree that Hraken is a necessity, he is just very good to have; but otherwise leoss have 6 solid ranged champs which is enough to really support them, and Mosharn is a monster who is fun to run at times :p.

    Will be updating the OP soon with some ideas for Paragon.
     
  20. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    I had always toyed with the idea of base as is for paragon and make upgrades leverage leoss bastion of mobility grant aura magic and cast:wish
     

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