Constructs - Rebuilding a theme.

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by Markoth, Aug 24, 2015.

  1. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    So to start things off I believe it needs to be determined how people want Structs to play. Personally I see them as the embodiment of the phalanx. A slow defensive theme that slowly builds into an unstoppable force.

    A few ideas just to toss out there to get things started. I am trying to put together a larger group of suggestions so let your minds run wild.

    Robodog
    Sentinel added to U1
    Sentinel changed to only make attacks against champions of the same race.
    Unequippable added to Base

    Groble Strike Force
    Changed to Arctic Gift like spell. Next X Constructs gain X

    Dwarven Engineer
    Damage Reduced to 0
    Attack: Physical removed from Base
    U1 changed to Augment Cration, Blessing of Stone
     
  2. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    quick question regarding constructs as no experience. but which do u think is best to run dwarven handler, tinkerer or engineer?

    Sorry if this is considered derailing
     
  3. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Typically you'd run 2 engi 1 Tink and 1 silv tink. But since @Sokolov gutted tink, she's out. 2x d engi, 1 silv and 1 handler/sarge are my choices.

    Strux are slow and sarge speeds them up and really helps force ranged which allows you to counter with RD.

    As for the deck. It's pretty craptastic and it all started when armory lost his basic attack, impen and imp speed. He was the center point. It was further hurt by Boost changes and then Sok terrible handling of Tink and Robodog.

    So I'd start there, fix Armory, Tink and Robodog. Add cata to the list. And whoever you have telling Sok what to do as pertains to IS, throw him in a fire, I can't believe this crap is coming only from Sok.
     
    sassquatch and themacca like this.
  4. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Tinkerer is gutted ? She is now 58 nora for build em tough, aura, recharge abilities, summon crabs and now has summon barricade to work with the many constructs that have reclaim. Dwarven engineer seems pretty outclassed now by about all the other tinkerers, even with his theme enabling abilities he is 74 nora at his lowest for a worse version of dwarven handler but costs 16 more nora has less defense less hp and helpless. Engineer's piledriver isn't worth deploying anymore really with all the easy ways to kill summons now. Also lodestone armory still has improve speed ? What did you think of the new motion sensor rune ?
     
  5. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Tinkerers roll was fast make tough and crabspam. Theme doesn't need aura recharge and the recharge mechanic is what was gutted.

    You have CD1 abilities but you must reduce CDs by increments of 2.

    I know loadstone still has imp speed, I was talking about the abilities as his kit were disrupted.

    Quit wasting my time.
     
  6. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    You mean that was tinkerers role before, learn to adapt your play style. The recharge mechanic is their for summon crabs always has been, your talk about cd 1 is pointless. She is there to spam crabs and give auras that's all she was ever there for. Armory is fine besides not having a basic attack anymore, robodog still sucks though. No need to be a **** because you don't know how to play structs anymore.
     
  7. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Hey bro, get a clue and I'll remove you from ignore, mkay?

    Edit: wow, magically the thread is back to normal.
     
  8. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Just saying who knows when you played last "bro", let alone when you played structs last. Not my fault you didn't know tinkerer is only there for spamming crabs. You also said run x2 dwarven engineer and x1 one silverclan tinkerer which has superior tinkering and invigorate 2, your a bit out of touch with the game maybe time to retire.
     
  9. EnigmaXIII

    EnigmaXIII I need me some PIE!

    Hi guys :) Im no pro structs player, but hopefully u wont mind me giving my opinion.
    1. I dont think constructs are half bad atm.. maybe not for high ranked play, but they are decent

    2. Whats a robodog?

    3. "A slow defensive theme that slowly builds into an unstoppable force." Augment creation isnt very defensive. I think your fix for engineer is awesome, but honestly his summon is just too good.. If you make him cheap he would be overpowered just because of his summon.. Otherwise i wouldnt mind him being cheap

    4. I like the groble strike force idea!

    5. Remove turret team from... turret team xD sounds weird to say, but i think it makes perfect sense.

    6. Make Fortify (The IS Spell) able to target constructs

    7. Lodestone armory
    BASE:
    Loses Craft, Surge: Equipped
    Gains Ironfist Armaments (When a friendly Dwarf or Construct becomes equipped, it gains 1 AP and +3 DMG for 2 turns. This does not stack)
    U1: Throw Axe, Mason 3, Shroud
    U2: Throw Javelin, Defender, Resilient

    *Ironfist Armaments is from Savage Armaments, an ability on the Lonx Facilitator

    8. Lodestone Construct
    BASE:
    Loses Pilfer, Ready 2, Eat Traps
    Gains +1 SPD, Snatch, Psychic Magnetism
    U1: Shield Throw, Relic Guardian, Empowered: Defense
    U2: Relocate: Relic, Magnetic Pulse, Gravity Well

    9. Groble Dervish
    BASE:
    Loses Attack: Physical, Loses Berserker, -1 SPD
    Gains Empowered: Speed, Mobility, +10 HP, +2 Damage
    U1: Trample, Enrage 3, Hostile
    U2: Quest: Runner, Sweep, Charge 2

    10. Whitestone/Blackstone Gargoyle
    BASE:
    Gains Vulnerability Acid (-6), Defenseless (-7)
    U1: Empowered: Ranged, Preparation, Defensive Strike
    U2: Punish, Still Life, Distract
     
    Gnomes likes this.
  10. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    I'm pretty sure that whirl o blades needs the basic attack to function.
     
  11. Firk

    Firk I need me some PIE!

    Melt construct needs a buff i see no way of using this if somone dident find a abuse of some sort.

    Consttructs have had so many changes. First remote controll was tripple nerfed. Rugolths revenge was also nerfed many times.

    It seems most constructs got the same skill. I would like to see some good skill that can be used with spare parts.

    Also i suggest giving Stone colossus lumbering this would go well with new robo bird
     
  12. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    They are probably going to nerf robo bird, stone colossus is good as he is just needs some damage or something. With tough 3 on him and superior tinkering your looking at 66 hp tough 3 3 def and resilient.
     
  13. Rapidice

    Rapidice I need me some PIE!

    The theme needs a little more DMG in its units, either via Commander or another mechanic. The boost nerf hit them severely. What's the point on my Tough 3, 60 + HP Stone Dragon if it has 8 dmg? My opponent can just ignore him, and race towards my squishy engineers or ranged units.
     
  14. Firk

    Firk I need me some PIE!

    i hope they dont nerf bird because they dont need to
     
  15. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Well it can't exist like that in the already stupid AP situation that is KF.
     
  16. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    Ok well if we are going to try and fix this theme we should start by undoing a lot of the crap that the revamp introduced as well as the shortcomings that @Sokolov has let happen to them in the last few patches.

    1. Load catapult should have its CD set back to 0. Even if it means a small cost hike on the ability that is compensated for through stat loss or such.
    2. The Boost rework and subsequent loss of damage needs to be compensated for in theme. Either as @Markoth suggested by introducing a construct only version of augment creation; or by introducing Commander: Construct, or by other similar mechanics. (the average base damage is 9.1 currently with only 7 out of 33 structs having a base damage higher than 10)
    3. The Recharge mechanic redesign needs to be recognized as the ruination of the tinker who can no longer spam auras and tough as intended. This was the prime argument that was used on sok to take away the old boost 3 and put recharge back on after Gedden's failed revamp redesign.
    4. (This is admittedly more of a personal gripe than poor balance decision making) Constructs lose construct immunity due to 2 themes struggling with poor deck building decisions when they include only 1 damage type. So to appease other factions player base, we lose an ability. However constructs remain immune to intoxication even though many of the constructs are brutes and could use this mechanic as a source of damage compensation. Basically we cant have things that make us tougher to kill but we cant have things that make it easier to kill either. Personally, id like all the Non-dwarf constructs to get construct immunity back (or some variation thereof more realistically) but also retain immunity to intoxication. Then I would like all the dual race dwarf/construct champs to lose immunity to intoxication. (I realize this would make some champs more expensive but I don't personally mind, nora gen is a thing and a viable strategy)
    5. Finally, make the catapult, siege engine, and mechanized band race dwarf also. This would go a long way on improving consistency and effectiveness in theme. It would also appease my personal OCD, while comparing art, flavor text, and abilities.
    Here are some of the tweaks id like to see happen on an individual basis to improve the theme. While I recognize some of these ideas include "new abilities" they are all based off of current abilities that just need to be redesigned to target specific races. Hopefully this would be simple to do from a coding and resources point of view.
    For the Tinkerers:
    • Dwarven Engineer:
      • Base: defenseless, summon: young pile driver, (damage to 0)
      • U1: mason 3, build em tough
      • U2: boost: construct, augment: constructs
      • My reasoning here is to provide the option of either tougher or stronger champs, while retaining the flavor of both the current and historical variations of this champ, at a reasonable cost.
    • Dwarven Handler:
      • U2: Boost: beast, Boost: construct, Commander: construct
      • This champ seems to be all about small aoe boosts, this would just add a different source/type for damage compensation.
    • Dwarven Tinkerer:
      • Base: Build em tough, mason 3, summon: crabs
      • U1: grant electricity aura, grant fire trap
      • U2: sustain: unstoppable, sustain: bezerker
      • Since this champ cant give out as many buffs as fast now maybe it can give out better buffs instead.
    For the Structs:
    • Silverclan Protector:
      • Base: Atk magic, complex machine, Magic beam (damage to 11)
      • U1: illuminate, precision
      • U2: protective, sentinel, surge dwarf
      • The current version lacks synergy and creativity. While my version does raise the cost back up a bit it at least provides slightly more synergistic options besides how cheap can it be fielded.
    • Clockwork Swarm:
      • Base: atk: physical, complex machine, numerous (defense to 1)
      • U1: rend 1, combo atk rend, reclaim relic
      • U2: split, swarm
      • The loss of speed from complex machine hurt. Besides this build offers variety in a boring rend line while giving the swarms an ability that they have a chance of triggering
    • Magnetic Rover:
      • Base: Bastion of mobility, chain lightning
      • U1: Planar hold, Relocate ally, magnetic pulse
      • U2: Rallying Cries 2, electricity aura 3
      • This change in layout changes a gimped trick rune into a great support rune that has trick deck potential.
    • Turret Team:
      • Base: Atk physical, complex machine, siege, unequipable (range to 2-4)
      • The ability turret team has been bugged since it was changed from a large to small unit. Removing this ability would drop the cost enough to allow for a mid range basic atk and bring this champ out of the shoe box.
    • Seige engine:
      • Base: atk physical, dwarf driven, siege, unequipable (range to 5-6) (race: dwarf, construct)
      • U1: stone bomb 3, rock slide, throw boulder
      • U2: fire bomb 3, lava storm , artillery
      • This change up removes the restrictions on being able to make basic attacks while reducing the range to compensate for the cost difference. Also mixing up the ability choices allows for variety without changing the intended role of the champ.
    • Dwarven catapult:
      • Base: atk physical, dwarf driven, load catapult, siege (race: dwarf, construct)
      • U1: stone bomb 1, slam, corrosive grenade
      • U2: stat bonus def 1, stat bonus HP 1, stat bonus damage 2
      • This redesign allows for cheap to maximize the mobility enhancing options or you can pay up for a bit of damage potential.
    • Lodestone Armory:
      • Base: atk physical, improve speed, throw shield (damage to 9, defense to 3)
      • U1: provision: defense, defender, shroud
      • U2: throw axe, surge: equipped, forge hammer
      • This change in layout allows for a tank to be a lynch pin that demands attention while enabling a theme with its presence.
    • Faultbreaker:
      • Stats: dam 12, speed 7, range 1-2, def 2, HP 70
      • Base: Atk physical, resist physical 2, titan, faultbreak, mountaineer, charge 3
      • U1: Trample, impact strike,
      • U2: heavy charger, break the line

    Now I realize these may be a bit over the top but we are looking at buffing a weak theme. These are as much redesign directions and ideas not hard fast necessities. There are other champs that could use tweaks but these are the ones that jumped out at me the most. I also don't wanna completely disregard some of soks good patch designs. The cavalier is a descent and runnable champ, and the hoplite is great again. Anyways thanks for reading through my long read.
     
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  17. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Good stuff.
     
  18. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    a sad side note on the state of constructs is that the theme is stronger right now split with SP than FF.
     
  19. Firk

    Firk I need me some PIE!

    how about robo bird gives flying"if target is construgt it also gets 1 speed"?
     
    Gwyndionnz likes this.
  20. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    seriously i said this a few times
    Please remove reckless flight on glider its just plain annoying
    i get it 70 nora for him but what the point if take controls end up using more nora than the initial investment 1o nora each time is a heavy price.
    also want to point out that reckless flight is horrible
    i had cases like this
    Your opponent is within your range, in the beginning of your turn and reckless flight moves and now your opponent no longer in your range !
    Its so irritating

    Reckless flight randomly move backwards .. this is really most irritating part of reckless flight. I get if RF moves in one direction at least it allows me to better predict and use take control in a better manner.

    I was position where i was engaged it moved backwards 1 space and then moved forwards 1 space re-engaging it was really annoying as hell
     

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