Counter to Soul Corruption and Sabotage Defile

That wiki editing is pretty amusing.

 

I didn't see where he accused anybody. He went to the wiki to look for historical information and found that someone had edited it recently, that's all - which is good to surface since we are all trying to remember the right details, so he is pre-emptively debunking the wiki page since it has been edited incorrectly.

It's also not like you live in Canada, which is where the IP traces to.

 

• DMR claimed that spells like Doom weren't good pre-Dog
• kalasle said he ran it before DOG and that it was viable
• DMR re-iterates claim that it wasn't viable and that the difference is that FW can stall better now
• kalasle suggested that it was a staple of "meat" decks as a counter to stuff meat couldn't handle
• I chimed in, stating that I recall it being used in the data back then (I don't have that data anymore, it was on my SOE computers), and that any increase in its use now seems more related to faction popularity than usage popularity
• I also mentioned the globe nerf, which happened Pre-DOG (relevant to the discussion since it affects usage pre and post DOG)
• DMR mentioned the SL duration change
• We all engage in discussion as to when and what changed about the duration

Doom is Maljaran Frontier, I was already working under Corpse when it was released. Yes, I definitely remember SL being nerfed, but we don't know whether it was before or after that. But yes, SL was not always 6/8, I am pretty sure it was 8/12 - it was certainly never 18 turns, that's silly.

Either way, Doom has been 6 turns for awhile, if not forever. And I remember it being nerf cried as soon as it came out (because people hate Instant-Kills and Corpse liked powerful spells - he is the one that made VP, Fading Recollection, Doom, etc.) and it may have even been nerfed, but it remains that the only recent change to Doom was the SL globe nerf.

Ultimately, the original contention was about Doom's viability pre-DOG vs post-DOG and the initial idea put forth by DMR was that it's only viable now because FW can stall better - I certainly think it's reasonable to suggest it's more viable now for that and potentially other reasons (though there are also reasons why it's less viable as well). Whether or not it was viable pre-DOG is up for debate, especially if we go back far enough where it's possible Doom was 8 turns, but certainly if we go back to JUST pre-DOG, it was already 6 turns for sure (since poxbase archive shows 6 turns for Short-Lived), so I am not sure if there's value in comparing so far back, to be honest.

Regardless, it's true that runes change in value over time based on factors not directly related to the spell, but I am not sure there is any definitively conclusion we can draw in this case - too much has changed, not only with the spell, but the factions/runes, champion/spell balance and even stuff like Mulligan factors in.

Release Doom:
35 or 40 nora - SL1 (6 or 8 turns)

Pre-DOG Doom:
40 nora - SL1 (6 turns)

Current Doom:
45 nora - SL1 (6 turns, no double globe)

Another thing to consider about viability when DOOM first came out is that there were much less options.

Here are the top non-champion runes in data I have from 2010:

42 Mobilization
30 Essence Drain
30 Mason's Spire
23 Soulreave
22 Elsarin Vex
20 Sacrificial Dagger
18 Domination
18 Graveyard
18 Unholy Tomb
16 Decay
16 Tome of Hate
15 Hungry Dead
12 Festering Wounds
10 Cursed Blade

I could see Doom replacing something like Cursed Blade or Soulreave when it came out.

 

From the forums? Probably not, unless they were archived by google or something.

On the OLD Octopi website, we could probably look at waybackmachine or something. But the problem is that SOE also put up the NEW website, which doesn't have the patch notes, so I am pretty sure this area is a black hole.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130201000000*/http://forums.poxnora.com/

Looks like the forums themselves got archived, but the posts aren't.

 

Yes, that's what I meant, you can use the old website and get really OLD notes, but yea, all the new stuff is on the SOE forums, which appears to have only been archived on the thread title level.