Dark Healing

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by Sokolov, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yea, I'd lean towards Dispelling Blows as well, followed by Dark Healing. Anyway, Sabotage: Defile was a great idea.

    With this change, he'd run around 80 nora with Phy Bound and Sabot.

    With Boost: Skeleton and DH (so same as now, except trade Tormented and Afflict for Healing Strike and Eternal Life), he is at what seems like a bargain 71 nora.

    (He has 4-5 RNG with this and I also gave him 4 more HP so he's at 46).
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  2. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    That sounds solid as Firk can't wait.
  3. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    That sounds great! Keeping DH on him as an upgrade is just as good as having SoD, because there >are< cases where healing is just large enough in a match for DH to be more beneficial than SoD. I understand your desire to keep Boost: Skeleton on him, but I think it's a dead upgrade because of how strong Tomb Lord is.

    EDIT: Oh, also - any chance he could get Attack: Red Lightning? His animation has him lashing out with red energy, possibly his own soul, it'd feel fitting?
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  4. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    Popping bubbles and imperv is 90% of what you need dispel for, and dispelling blows doesn't do it. The positive buff removal is better done with shrive, which is also over costed. But even again, most positive buff that you'd want removed right away, are not going to matter by the time you can hit an enemy with dispelling . Blows
  5. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    I'm not wrong.
  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I really wish I had been successful in arguing for the ability to change upgrades in game back when the first upgrade revamped happened. It would really do a ton to make certain upgrades viable. As it is though, lots of mid level players underestimate having some counter based upgrades in their decks, particularly having two different upgrade sets for the second copy of a champion.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  7. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    Unless it got changed recently, dispelling blows needs damage and not just a successful attack like it says. Right now, Dice is right in that it ends up being inconsistent and matchup-dependent. Bubble, impervious, righteous deflection/divert, one with nora/protection (if same damage type as dispeller) are fairly common things that you put dispel into your deck to counter.
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I absolutely agree that there are things D Blows can't deal with and said as much. I don't believe it makes Dispel much more powerful though when you account for what you do get in exchange. (Especially in the context of a champion with other on attack abilities)

    Also will look into the success/damage thing and see if it's an actual issue.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  9. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I just looked into this and on live and Dispelling Blows actually works on success:


    So it actually works against Bubble and Impervious RIGHT NOW. I also see no evidence that it was ever broken in the bug tracker nor in patch notes, but it's possible it was broken at some point. You never know with this stuff.

    So the question is... what is @DiCEM0nEY actually talking about when he claims Dispel is better than Dispelling Blows because 90% of the time you want to counter Bubble/Impervious when it actually works against those things. Was it just an assumption that it wouldn't work? Or is there a bug still somewhere where it doesn't work sometimes? Because in my testing it works fine.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  11. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    Shrive didn't
  12. Varthas

    Varthas I need me some PIE!

    How would Decay work on him?

    Else I don`t mind TP having boost along Tomb Lord. DH i don`t mind either, but i think it should affect all forms of active healing but maybe less efficient, maybe return only 50% of the DH to own champs. I think it would make more sense, why can he only snatch a heal from a champ and not from a spell casted by "a champ"? Afflict to just get him cheaper never felt right but i never used shrive, i think there was one or two times i realised during the game i could have used it 5 turns ago, and after that i went for afflict. Tormented had a small synergy with ToH and UT as long as he stayed support and alive at least.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  13. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    Just skull of decay but on a champion
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  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    He already has it now, it's just that TP is so bad no one realizes I guess :D
  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Ah, I see, so you just assumed Dispelling Blows works the same way - not unreasonable, though in this case Shrive's description is just bugged/wrong like many things are on this game, but Dispelling Blows seems to work correctly.

    Also, if you thought Dispelling Blows = Shrive, then I can see why you'd say what you did.

    As a DISPELLING ability, Shrive is clearly the worst of the lot, it is CD2, AP+1, and is attack based. However, it trades that value for dealing 5 HP loss so it has damage potential instead, which is something.

    It's kind of clunky and fiddly to figure out exactly what it'll do, so I am actually phasing it out in favor of Dispelling Blows since in most cases it's similar, and Dispelling Blows is just easier to understand and more consistent (even aside from the bug with Shrive) - which is another reason why I was concerned when you said Dispelling Blows was so bad.

    Shrive is an old ability (java still also), and exists from an era when things like "success" wasn't well defined. I may bring it back as a "Judgement" type ability at some point.

    Anyway, curious if you still think Dispel is much more powerful than Dispelling Blows now that you are aware it does counter the stuff that you want to dispel "90% of the time."
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Hypothetically, how much more would Dark Healing have to be costed if we wanted it to trigger on all healing? Right now it's 4 nora on account that it's somewhat restricted. Maybe 8?
  17. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    if decay costs 5 according to your earlier post. i would say 8 is feasible. though i wouldnt value the global divided healing as particularly valuable
  18. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I like this, except now i will never be able to decide to run him with Dispelling Blows or counter healing.

    Overall I think Skeletons and FW in general has become pretty well rounded out after the last couple of years, especially since the removal of boon.
  19. sWeNibor

    sWeNibor I need me some PIE!

    Considering it is a support unit, shouldnt it rather have dispelling blows on u1 rather than forsaken exploit.

    I have a hard time seeing myself choose forsaken exploit on it. Kind of a dead upgrade in my book. But dispelling blows there i would atleast consider
  20. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    To go back to the topic , is it worth? probably not

    Most FW players i know prefer the skull of decay over dark healing as a way to protect their tomb from seism as well as the healing reduction aspect , also I dont really think it adds anything to skeletons which is the main bg that champion appears in

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