Darkmarsh Fury stealth nerf

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Saka, Mar 8, 2014.

  1. Saka

    Saka The King of Potatoes

    I wasn't there because the game wasn't accessible and died, was it my fault? Should I have checked all pages of archived forums before I invested in excessive grinding and making a basic budget deck? Can you explain your logic to me? Did I deserve this?
  2. IceNorth

    IceNorth Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Inaccessible? U do realize u can TRADE right? Want Kartch for example? Put a trade with an exo u got from a core box along with few other runes, just as a bonus and someone will trade it to you, u get rune u want, he/she gets extra shards.

    With boxes much more available now i expect KTCAOP's runepool to be flooded with runes. Need anything C/U/R? Go there and trade 1 for 1. Heck might even me exos there soon enough ...

    Also u can now get almost any rune in a pack, including legendaries. My advice is simply save for a box u want then trade spare stuff, don't shard for anything until u get your runes up.

    You said it took u a month of grind where u burnt out? Now for less time u get an entire box, with only daily wins. Yes it still takes time and effort,but nowhere NEAR as inaccessible as before. Or did u expect to start the game with every rune in existence available on your first day of playing???
  3. TheNidhogg

    TheNidhogg I need me some PIE!

    Woooah sorry that your 2 uncommons got nerfed.

    I mean.. c'mon dude. Are you for real? It's still a good rune, just not as stupid. I'd have more sympathy if this were some super expensive rune you saved up forever to get.. but it'd still be a good change.
  4. Imba

    Imba The King of Potatoes

    Well I can see you are going to be stubborn about this so, I'll chime in.

    Yes, it is absolutely your responsibility to be aware of the state of the game and what you are investing in. I think you are overestimating the effect of the fury nerf, but whatever. Also, if you are going to start a complaint thread in a public forum to whine about something that exists in the game, it is also absolutely your responsibility to ensure that you know exactly what you are talking about. This means not being lazy, doing your research, or at least acquiescing when someone brings up a completely rational, obvious fact like "it was nerfed a year ago."

    As for your issues with Violent/Fury: With the average meta viability of boghoppers, do you really expect to be without a proc for violent very often? If so, you are playing incorrectly. About 70% of my champs are boghoppers, regardless of which BG I create (outside of psychic amp), and I'm sure the numbers are similar for most everyone else playing FS. You should be grateful that it kept attack charged, because it's very easy to get off an attack without any actual AP to make that possible, which should also make it easier to position yourself next to something that can proc Violent.

    Fury is a great champ but lacks survivability, so if you are frequently finding yourself without ANYTHING that can proc Violent next to Fury, you've already lost the game. I don't understand your statement about "parking" a champ next to Fury. You can move your champs around, in fact move them after Fury has attacked, if you wish. There's no clause stipulating some need to keep a chance next to Fury forever and for always.

    As for the last question that you addressed, regarding the expected value of a pack. This may be something I'll post to the forums later, should I be assed enough to write down some calculations, but from perusing the numbers and from your tone I can safely state that it is actually much better than you assume.

  5. Saka

    Saka The King of Potatoes

    Absolutely my responsibility, lol ok, I don't know what to say to that, you are implying on a dead game, in an archived forum, assuming the answer was even in there, that every returning player should have read thoroughly expecting to jot down every change that was 'supposed' to happen but never announced before re-launch, ok, logic too strong from an elitist player. If a returning player to a dead game such as poxnora did not do their thorough research because they were elsewhere playing better games when the nerfs were announced, they surely deserved to waste their time. I mean can you imagine if DOG posted pre-emptive patch notes on the changes they will be making upon acquisition of poxnora, utterly ridiculous, we can't just let any kind of lazy player play poxnora, they don't deserve to play if they didn't do their research or stuck with the game all this time!

    Can you explain why having a damage stacking cap on darkmarsh fury is strictly inferior to violent? Can you explain why having another champ within vicinity to trigger Violent is intended gameplay in a boghoppers deck, why is it so important to force the violent mechanic, force another champion to be present, when other less clunky options are available?

    Why is damage cap on darkmarsh fury + a way to limit them outside of BH theme so terrible compared to the conditional trigger of violent?

    Do you think Violent was a bandaid fix because there are limited similar abilities compared to fury? I feel that way.
  6. Saka

    Saka The King of Potatoes

    It's not just '2 uncommons' that got nerfed, it's the overall power of a deck, and I'd like to switch decks but that's pretty hard atm, so it's the combination of all of those that makes a really frustrating experience right now
  7. Imba

    Imba The King of Potatoes

    You're missing the point so completely, in such a magnificent fashion, that I find myself wondering why I even bother responding. Here goes.

    IF it is not YOUR responsibility to be aware of the game when you are making investment decisions, WHOS is it? Should DOG send you personal emails every day, just to check up and make sure you know what's going on? Stuff gets nerfed, get over it. This is the way the game works. I know that I, as a reasonable person, would make sure that I collected as much information as possible before I built a deck IF the time spent building that deck were as important to me as it seems to be to you. Other players exist, could you not ask them? What I am saying is that "oops lol I didn't know" is not a valid argument against a rune being nerfed.

    Multiple people have tried to explain to you why Violent is better than a damage cap, I'd advise you to take your pick of which one you like best. I'll reiterate some of the basic points, though while doing this I suddenly realize that I am a huge glutton for punishment. Firstly, a damage cap effects not Fury alone but EVERY champ in EVERY faction in EVERY BG that has Fury! This would potentially cause nerfs to champs that don't need nerfs. Secondly, I'm having trouble understanding why you would even WANT to have a damage cap compared with potentially infinite damage stacking for such a small inconvenience. Thirdly, if they did instantiate a damage cap on Fury for some ungodly reason, we'd all be having an argument on how high that damage cap should be, solving nothing. How much is good for you? 17? 20? The problem with this approach is that, if you cap damage enough to be an actual nerf, the point of Fury disintegrates. If you don't cap damage at a low enough point, Fury has already served it's purpose. Around 17-20 damage, fury becomes so ridiculous that it doesn't matter if damage continues to stack.

    Compare this with Violent. You continue to get indefinite damage increases, as long as you play with more than a couple of brain cells and make sure to stand next to some other frog while you hit a. Hurr durr. You'll want to be doing this most of the time anyway, as you'll notice the tendency for champs to clump together when making power turns.

    Violent was not a "band-aid" solution, it was the most NATURAL solution given the context of the rune.

    Feel free to dissect this any way you wish, I think I'm over trying to explain this simplistic Bane Shift anymore.
  8. TheNidhogg

    TheNidhogg I need me some PIE!

    You're whinging about two uncommons in your deck that got nerfed. I doubt that you've had a chance to even play 20 games with the new version. I've literally played hundreds of games with and against this rune before it was nerfed (I'd guess at least 100 using it and 100 against).
  9. Saka

    Saka The King of Potatoes

    Pre-emptive patch notes before relaunch and upon acquisition of ownership, it was their responsibility, not mine. Come on, are you saying I should have specifically asked players if darkmarsh fury was going to be nerfed or not when I made my deck, as if i had a premonition that something was going to nerfhammer darkmarsh fury? Did you expect such small community to actively point out such a nerf? Not once in the FS forums was the nerf even discussed and I browsed pretty thoroughly. Yes I browsed archived forums as well. When I made my budget BH group I did do extensive research and analysis.

    I've mentioned that you dont need to touch the fury ability, just put a damage cap on darkmarsh fury itself, this solves changing the fury ability for every other champion. I don't want darkmarsh fury to be nerfed in any way, but this thread seems to imply that the rune by itself MUST be nerfed so here we are. I think we can agree that DMF is a ranged carry rune specializing in large damage output using its charge ability, and damage stacking(although I can argue you can remove this damage stacking ability and up its base damage, it would be still a carry)

    Violent is a restriction that most likely wont proc if you dont have enough champions around or on board. meaning with violent, you know you won't get to proc it so the times where you have the option to throw down darkmarsh fury, is now not an option anymore, its just a limitation. With 9 base damage and no procs, it's better to throw something else instead unless you can back it up with another champ.

    The whole point is to make the damage stacking less conditional/clunky in both early game, lategame, without champions in 2 cells. Like you say, if violent is such a small inconvenience to you, what was the point of the nerf if fury was able to retain its original power? With 9 base damage, I'd gladly trade less clunky damage stacking with a cap rather than conditional stacking.

    If you say 20 is too high, then how about 16? or how about remove the damage stacking altogether and up its base damage making static? In your post you seem to favor violent and its infinite damage stacking potential, I agree but I am told the general consensus is that it needs nerf. And I don't think boghopper bg in general is too overpowered...
  10. Saka

    Saka The King of Potatoes

    again it's not just 2 uncommons, it's its interactions within a deck, DMF was the ranged carry, alt damage fire that budget BH might need in order to push for a win, if that is nerfed then there are other implications as well and I might have chosen another budget faction or theme instead, this isn't too farfetched I think.
  11. soulmilk

    soulmilk I need me some PIE!

    1. Just upping his base damage will make him lose all flavor and make him less original.
    2. Darkmarsh Fury was seen to be one of THE most overpowered runes in the game. There are still going to happen nerfs to the other overpowered runes, some just need to be handled faster than others.
    3. Darkmarsh Fury is still an amazingly rune.
    4. Rush have gotten out of hand and players have wanted it to be weakened.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
  12. Imba

    Imba The King of Potatoes

    I'm not sure what you're not understanding about this. The nerf needed to happen, the fact that you didn't get the "memo" is regrettable but ultimately no one's fault but your own. You can make up excuses about why you didn't realize the change was imminent but that game can be played by two. Were the devs magically supposed to know that you, one individual out of one hundred, wasn't aware of the update? News flash: runes from EVERY faction got nerfed as part of the transfer, everyone was taken by surprise to SOME degree, and you're the only one whining about it. I, personally, ask about every rune I acquire that is vital to my BG and takes time to obtain as a precautionary measure. For instance, I asked about the worth of trading for augurs almost three months ago, was given the response that I should wait until after the transfer because it was getting nerfed and the value would decrease. You'll find that the more you take responsibility for your own investments, the less you'll have to whine here.

    You're overestimating the effect of the nerf yet again. I'll reiterate, if you're having trouble proccing Violent that is your bad play and not a symptom of the rune itself. No one else has problems with it. I would hate to have this devolve into a "l2p" discussion but that is honestly how it is going if you can't get past this.

    You also completely ignored my third point about damage capping. It's a very fine line to get the right cap, and Violent just simply works better. The devs are not going to bend over backwards for one person out of a hundred that has a problem with an otherwise perfectly legitimate ability.
  13. Saka

    Saka The King of Potatoes

    Which part of pre-emptive patch notes did you not understand?
  14. Saka

    Saka The King of Potatoes

    1. Sure, so put a damage cap
    2. sure ok, overall as a BG it wasn't that out of hand,
    3. could be a lot less clunky with a damage cap, unconditional stacking
    4. replace the word 'rush' i used with the concept of 'wanting to have a champ 3 or more spaces away to do other things' instead, the point isn't about rush, it's about splitting resources when required
  15. Saka

    Saka The King of Potatoes

    all your posts reeks of elitism im really tired of dealing with them, reminds me of unconditional diablo 3 and blizzard fanboism :|

    man you make proccing violent like its such rocket science or something, there's a difference between smart play and forced arbitrary positioning, and plenty of situations where you can't proc violent therefore if you had another ranged in your rune dock you would play your tidemaster/augur instead if you could only afford to play one champ at that time, this isn't hard to get. and it isn't rocket science to move your champs in range, then attack with fury, whatever, feels good to be in the elite club to have 'figured' that out.

    the point here is the restriction and clunkiness, and unnecessarily limiting options, while it can be solved another way.

    And pre-emptive patch notes man, do we really need to go into detail how crucial that is for any kind of game?
  16. guokamoli54

    guokamoli54 I need me some PIE!

    I have played this game for years and have seen many changes come and go many people were very upset at first but to be honest the fury was very powerful and this really isnt that bad. I was upset when and entire race of runes was nerfed :( Tortuns! Why! But I still stayed with the game because I enjoy it and have invested alot into this game. So just keep playing man and give the game a chance and dont leave just because of this. Also I am pretty confidant that the fine gentlemen of DOG will be fixing alot of issues and putting alot of work into this game so I am very excited for the future of this game it will be going places. (and maybe for the tortuns they will get fixed soon)!
  17. Imba

    Imba The King of Potatoes

    Yeah, everyone's real sad that the new Darkmarsh Fury forces you to actually make tactical decisions in this game of tactical decision-making.

    I certainly don't think Violent is rocket science, but apparently you do.

    The thing about pre-emptive patch notes, is that they still would not have come quickly enough for you to get back the time you spent grinding for that bg, unless you did it all in the last 48 hours, needless to say that the various nerfs/buffs were ALL noted at some point in the forums during the PAST YEAR.

    I keep hearing excuses from you, but nothing of substance.
  18. Paper Skull

    Paper Skull I need me some PIE!

    Look, Saka, I get that you're frustrated, but you're getting quite up in arms about what is overall a relatively small nerf. It's important to note that you don't lose the damage from violent, so babysitting your furies isn't much of an issue. You just have to take care in positioning properly and Darkmarsh Fury should be just as powerful as before. And as far as being weaker when there aren't other ranged boghoppers to proc violent, that's just a cost. If you think it's too much, it might be best to try a different rune. When they nerfed Deepcave Extractor way back when I was upset too, but it forced me to try other runes that ended up working out better for me. Experiment a bit.

    There should've been some patch notes, but hey, DOGs has been really busy. Give them some slack. Transferring ownership of a game like this is damn hard.

    I'm sorry you're having rune accessibility problems. Try checking out Poxbox. They're down right now, because of the transfer, but it offers a pretty straightforward trading system where you can get a lot of runes for pretty cheap.

    Please show a little more respect, and you'll be treated with more respect in return.

    EDIT: Oh hey look patch notes. (These just came up as far as I can tell.)
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
  19. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    You've had multiple people try to explain to you why this nerf was necessary and you still choose to ignore it. Darkmarsh Fury has 4-5 damage from Impassioned. It's not that hard to scry your shrine to get it down to half hp.

    As for the Patch Notes topic, yeah they should have made a thread about patch notes, but with all the trouble they're having with the server transfer I'm not surprised they didn't find the time for it.
    RedScarlet and soulmilk like this.
  20. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    The fury is okay still, but patch notes are a basic necessity. Considering the turmoil right now not posting them is completely forgivable, but in the future ... Don't change things without, please.
    Kampel likes this.

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