Depreciation of themes causes stagnation in the meta

So you made the reply without even looking at them/knowing where they stand. Noted.

Feel free to nitpick all you want. I get that you are waving the banner as champion of the revamp. Should have made it less obvious. When someone is nitpicking me, I see that as "I really don't have anything of consequence to say so I'll say things of little consequence". A confrontational way of agreeing to my points, I guess.

 

I'll start off by apologizing for what I'm about to say.

This thread is dumb.

Themes are perfectly fine after revamp. It can take me 5 min to build 5 different 'theme' based bg in KF, it will take me another 5 min min to build similar number of 'theme' based bg's in other factions and all of them will be competitive at the highest level of game play. I think you really didn't look outside of the box too much, check things around, explore and you will find some neat little interactions. I FAIL to see how exactly 'themes' were hurt durning this revamp, can argue the opposite, they are better off the way they are. In fact most things you see around in ranked play are 'theme' based bg's, apparently we're playing 2 different games here...

 

No need to apologize, everyone has their opinions.

Let me just say this. People will play what they are familiar with as much as possible (which might also be what they enjoy the most or have available to them at this point). The effects will not be immediate but you'll start to see less themes, themes as modules, good stuffs and then split faction goodstuffs in the competitive ranks more and more - if I am correct (given nothing is changed on themes).

 

I would agree 100% on those two points. I have been posting towards your first point in a few threads, and this thread covers point 2. The first point I think (surely) has to be visible to the Devs and will be dealt with but the 2nd point is what has more potential to cause long term damage because it has less potential to be immediately apparent and therefore immediately rectified.

I would add a 3rd point:

3. Go through the runes, categorized by nora costs, and make sure you have a reasonable complement of each nora range. Perhaps you'll need to rebuild the middle range (65-79) if necessary by increasing the bottom end or toning down the top end.

 

What's exactly wrong with 'good stuffs' bg's, they are 'themes' as well just build around different mechanics than race or specific ability present on champions from a default faction. Racial and full faction themes will remain very strong, that's how it works, simple synergy present in those bg's is much stronger than 16 good champions from 2 factions without it. Let people play what they want, if one want to play racial bg's they can, if someone wants to build a bg with random champions from 2 factions, that's ok as well! Theme's are fine, they are inherently strong and will remain to be strong. Nothing changed in this department after the revamp.

 

Eh, champions from themes still play a big part in those themes, they're just not 'I do it all' champs. The game went back to simple idea of not reading 16 abilities, calculating resistances, tough level, defence and potentially evasive, reflex, deflect, divert and whatnot before you actually make an attack... Themes still have their identity, just different, simpler. Now it's 1 or 2 abilities or 1 or 2 theme enabling runes, not a theme that can do it all. You still have specific gameplay with certain theme, nothing changed here. Yes some runes needs a cost fix, or upgrade path changed but that's ballance issue not 'themes' problem, that's mainly because said champs are not restricted to specific theme, nor should they be.

 

Theme synergy is what makes a theme a theme. Just because they are all shaped like teddy bears just makes them a race. Maybe it's hard to see my point if you weren't here when themes didn't exist? Not sure.

Could be we just disagree as to what was done with themes.

And you are right, good stuff decks should be viable. They will always be viable. There just shouldn't be a competitive gap for picking g what's best and playing it. That's a very small group of runes and makes you play vs the same thing every game. Basically, stagnation, as per the OP.

 

I was around when nobody even thought of making a 'theme' bg, everything was built around synergy and the innate function of a bg, regardless of what race or faction it was. Skeletons and mogas weren't themes, they were runes that shared a race and had an innate synergy, that's all. Those bg weren't sandbagged by the forced 'theme'. Nobody cared what race or 'theme' ability FW runes had when they were included in an attrition bg, just the sheer efficiency in this specific bg, the role it played. Pox back then worked pretty much like MtG, where those smarter players build a bg with innate mechanics, not 20 random runes. Nowdays people ask for those mechanics to be obvious, hence the 'themes' arrived, a templates, ready to go battlegroups. Yea you could probably switch one or 2 runes depending on your mood, but the core of things were no-brainers. I hated it, lots of people quit the game becouse of it, I don't want it to come back. You want to play a 'theme' you still can, but it's not forced on runes to be used only 'the right' or no way.

 

I'm trying not to like all of your posts in this thread Baskitkase.

I started playing this game because of themes. And will stop playing if themes are dismantled. That is the way many people are.
Also, I don't count "goodstuffs" as a theme. I am okay with them being there, as long as they are equal to theme decks.
And while simple is good, it is hard to make it simple, distinctly part of a theme, AND open-ended, AT THE SAME TIME. It was good when there were distinct upgrade paths, one path helped it play with the Bobs, while the other helped it play with the Bills. That was simple enough, and it was killed.

 

I hear you. Goodstuffs is definitely not a "theme", its the anti-theme, but it has just as much of a right to exist as themes, wouldn't you say? What if you really liked playing goodstuffs? Equal is a tricky word, which is why I said valid (defined as competitive within reason). Some decks will not be equal to others because of their makeup but over all, one competitive deck should be, on average, equal to the average applicability of all other decks.

 

Your assumtion that 'good stuff bg' as you call them are way stronger than 16 champions with same race is weird, ofc it's stronger! That's the whole purpose of a DECK BUILDING, not deck assembling. Those 'good stuff bg's are battlegroups build around a THEME, a specific interactions, knockback is a theme, phalanx is a theme, attrition is a theme, building an archer bg based on range combat is a theme, building a bg with 16 flying champions is a theme, frost amp is a theme. You dont need creep and crawl, seal of vashal, boost, or any other specific race or ability to build a theme, all you need is a battlegroup that functions in a specific way, that's a theme for me. I don't care if it's a split, full faction, 6 skeletons, 2 demons, 3 yetis and 10 spiders, as long as they work well together in a built bg.

 

Lets be clear about who was wielding the Corpse pitch fork. It was me. Most of the forums regulars kept calling me a scrub for pointing out how horrible Corpse was at his job. Once Corpse left you all jumped on the Corpse is bad bandwagon. There were few that joined me in my rants. Most are gone now. None that post now were vocal about the ineptness of Corpse while he was on the job.

The game has improved since the fall of corpse. You may post your thanks below.

No matter how bad or good themes get I will still play them. The only thing that will change is whether or not I take up my pitch fork again.

 

Really just take a moment and read that, realize how silly you look, then edit it.

 

I'm impressed he managed to pat himself on the back so thoroughly without pulling anything.

 

Its always enjoying to see how seriously some take themselves on the interwebs.