Discussing American politics as civil human beings

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by BurnPyro, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    I did share my opinion of the Trump tax plan, just not as quick as u wanted.

    I did not respond to your opinion of his tax plan though.

    I don't consider that ignoring Trump's tax plan.

    "You can read/watch or not" means I am not forcing u to be here. Not awkward at all.

    People rarely respond to my vids or links, and I rarely say anything about it.
     
  2. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I agree they make sense... on a surface level, but many of them lack sufficient detail or actual understanding of the issue to be realistic.

    "Better trade" for instance isn't a policy. It's just an idea. And anyone would sound silly if they didn't say they want "better trade." But you think other countries don't also want "better trade?" What exactly is Trump (who is not even a trade negotiator for the US, now or even if he became president) going to do about that exactly? (To be fair, he HAS said that he'd appoint HIMSELF as the trade rep.)

    Here's what his website says about trade:

    ...

    Nothing.

    Here are some of what he has said about trade in general:

    "Our country is in serious trouble. We don't have victories anymore. We used to have victories, but we don't have them. When was the last time anybody saw us beating, let's say, China in a trade deal? They kill us. I beat China all the time. All the time."

    Ok... how will you "beat" China? And what does that even mean? Does that simply mean you export more? Does that mean you put tariffs on all their stuff but somehow get them to import US goods without tariffs? Do you know what that would actually mean for prices of consumer goods and the economy?

    "I'm totally against the trade bill for a number of reasons. I'm a free trader. But the problem with free trade is you need really talented people to negotiate for you. If you don't have people that know business, not just a political hack that got the job because he made a contribution to a campaign, free trade is terrible.

    Free trade can be wonderful if you have smart people, but we have people that are stupid. We have people that are controlled by special interests. And it's just not going to work
    "

    Indeed, the details are astounding. People who did it are stupid, thus it must be stupid. Nevermind that Trump himself hasn't even seen the details of the bill, but hey, he knows it's stupid. And someone who wants to impose tariffs and "beat" countries calling himself a free trader at the same time doesn't seem to understand what those words mean.

    "The important thing to consider is that more and more there is an interdependence of world economies. No one can afford to be isolationist any more. Keep your focus global. Globalization has torn down the barriers that have formerly separated the national from the international markets."

    Yes, exactly, I agree with him here... except that he says this WHILE advocating for isolationists policies like a 35% import tax on everything from Mexico, so I don't know what he really thinks.

    ~

    There's also the fact that a trade deficit isn't inherently a bad thing, but it's a tough concept (I can try and explain in more detail if people want, but the bottom line is that the part of the economy that factors into the trade deficit isn't all of the economy).
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
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  3. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    ~

    Ok, let's look at this in an abstract way so you can see why I am annoyed:

    You posted Article A.

    I replied, in detail, to the portion of Article A you seemed to highlight

    You replied that I only replied to a specific part pf the topic, and suggested I reply to the rest so we can talk about it.

    I did so.

    You did not respond. Eventually you responded to your own opinion on Article A, but at this point I am still not sure you've read what I said about it.

    ~

    Now, here you make a snide comment about how it's "curious" no one responded to a particular article out of dozens you post.

    ~

    So I am sitting here going... really? You are going to say something like that? What are you trying to pull here?

    (This is another reason why when you suggested earlier today I should look up welfare trends and get back to you, I decided I am not going to, because the last time I spent a few hours researching a topic to discuss with you, you ignored it. Instead, I will spend a short amount of time here and there on select subjects I care to respond to, and if you find that "curious" so be it.)
     
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  4. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Many good points. Trump has decades of business experience all over the globe. He has more experience than the last few presidents combined. He is painting with broad strokes, for sure.

    I don't expect him to dig deep, because that would be super boring. One cannot win by being boring. Obama won with charisma and energy, even though he had no significant experience. Trump has charisma, energy, and experience. He remains a threat for this reason.

    USA owes 3 trillion total between China and Japan. How is that good for us?
     
  5. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    I apologize for that. Sometimes I am a real jerk.

    I will strive to have less rough edges. Have a great night.
     
  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I don't expect him to say details all the time, but it'd be nice if the stuff he said made sense instead of being contradictory. And then when he posts details on his website, it's still vague and doesn't jive for me. (Note: I am going to biased here, as I believe Trump's and my own views on the economy and what makes it run are probably very different - he seems to be a supply side guy and I am a demand side guy.)

    But it all does SOUND good if you don't look too hard. That's politics in general tho, not a Trump thing.

    Oh, also, re: Trade, Bernie Sanders is also anti-TPP/Trade, and I disagree with him on that as well (he focuses on the "lost jobs" as though that's the only effect of free trade). I am pretty pro-free trade tho, so also pretty biased on this issue :D


    To be clear, US owing money to China and Japan is not about trade. That's a completely different issue.

    As of earlier this year (April), Japan surpassed China as the largest holder of US debt, at a little over $1.2 trillion. China has about that much too.

    But this type of debt isn't unilateral, other countries owe the US a lot of money as well. That's how the global economy works and can be seen as foreign investment in the "owing" country (i.e. they are putting money INTO the US economy and helping it grow).

    For instance, China actually owes about $800 billion to the US as well, and a lot of other debt to the rest of the world as well.

    The difference in this case is that China has been refusing to pay interest or even really acknowledge a good part of this debt for awhile now... but that's another issue altogether (basically, the current People's Republic of China government doesn't see that it needs to obligate the debts of the previous Republic of China).
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Anyway, to be less confrontational, I'll say it this way:

    If there are specific articles or topics you are particularly interested in having discussed, point them out and I'll try to respond to those specifically.​

    And it's cool, I am a troll/jerk too. It's the internet, it's to be expected :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  8. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    This is the most depressing part of the last 34 pages. =(
     
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  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Additionally, I am sorry. I think I am being a bit unfair too. I mean, this is just a gaming forum, and you are just posting how you feel/what you think at the time, and I can't expect you, myself or anyone else to sit there and wonder "I wonder how this might sound combined with ANY of the stuff I may have EVER posted!" That's silly.
     
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  10. Bellagion

    Bellagion I need me some PIE!

    Good guy sok
     
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  11. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    To us hes an american, to darkjello he is a secret muslim kenyan.
     
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    [​IMG]

    This is pretty funny. I don't believe Sanders has a chance in this matchup tho, Trump represents and exudes "MURICA" while Sanders is basically the anti-Murica because socialist.
     
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Reddit is fun:

    upload_2015-10-14_1-23-43.png
     
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  14. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    You know stuff hurts when reddit is making fun of biases.
     
  15. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Watching the debate VODS now.

    Am I the only one who wants to hit Hilary when she opens her mouth?
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  16. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    I believe you will level up, politically, after watching the Dem debate. Congrats.
     
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    She did get a lot more... talk-time, just like Trump on the Republican side did. It's partly the mod's fault, but they are both good at asserting themselves.
     
  18. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Trump did not say a single word for 28 minutes, at one point in the last debate. Granted, Repubs have many legit candidates and Dems just have 2.
     
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

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  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    [​IMG]

    Time in Minutes
    Trump
    : 18:47

    Bush: 15:48

    Fiorina: 13:30

    Carson: 12:56

    Christie: 12:36

    Rubio: 11:21

    Cruz: 10:45

    Paul: 10:28

    Kasich: 9:44

    Huckabee: 9:20

    Walker: 8:29

    (Second debate)
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
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