Discussing American politics as civil human beings

Yes, yes there is. If you studied the last 50 years of American history with an open mind, the truth would set you free. I am tired of doing the lifting for you sir. How about, instead of me typing long posts that you might or might not really give a fair shake, YOU prove to everyone here that the last 2 presidents have wielded less power than the 2 presidents before them?? While you are at it, YOU prove to everyone here that the centralized government in Murica is less corrupt, more efficient, and weaker in the last 15 years than in the 15 years before that. Finally, YOU prove that judicial activism has been on the decline in the last 15 years. (Meaning the judges stricly interpret the constituion, BoR, and the law). If you can prove those 3 things, I will eat crow and spend $500.00 on Pox during the next year. Eagle scout's honor. This is your time to shine.

How would you feel about me if I stole 30%--or more--of your money each year and then I convinced the majority of your neighbors that YOU were in the wrong??

 

Did you just call taxes theft?

If yes, that was the final straw. That would be an indefensible level of insanity.

 

I suppose "Compulsory Donation" does sound better.

Much as I do think there are legitimate taxes, it is still taking people's money, most often against their will, by threat of force, even though (or indeed specifically because) they had rightfully earned that money.

I don't agree with labeling all taxes "theft" necessarily, mostly because in theory those affected by taxes in the US and several other nations have representation to influence/control tax law, but I don't think it would be considered indefensible or insane to think otherwise. At the very least, there are (numerous) instances of taxes being used to abuse specific groups and classes.

I would also argue that any government which imposes taxes upon it's citizenry without giving them the ability to be represented in said government is carrying out theft.

 

Without representation, yes, maybe. With representation it is pretty much being a state.

Taxes being misused is a pretty terrible thing, but does not inherently reduce the legitimacy of the state if it is misused in accordance with the stupid wishes of the population. Like wasting it on an oversized military, for example, or a mismanaged healthcare system that can't decide whether it wants to be free market or reasonable.

But if you really don't want to pay taxes despite them being used in a way mandated by an electorate, move to Somalia, I heard they don't collect taxes there. Which is part of why the country is in the shape it is.

 

Maybe if our 'allies' used their militaries for more than just parades we wouldn't have to spend so much on ours. Don't forget that aircraft carriers are used for disaster relief as well as for threatening disaster. (Wondering if I can claim even something as obvious as that without providing a link).

 

Yeah, if only more countries would invade others and throw them into utter disarray, leading to a refugee crisis we are now stemming while the US shoves its thumbs up the butt

 

*shrug*

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the US military doesn't need as much funding as it has regardless.

 

saw that gif earlier today, gold

 

The percentage of my taxes that is used to kill innocent muslims, abort fetuses, allow the filthy rich to be even more filthy rich, buy "poor" people phones, and that is generally used in a horribly inefficient manner... has been stolen from me by trickery and force. Anyone that claims big government in Murica is efficient, good, and needed should prove they are right instead of attacking me. I have absorbed lots of criticism from plenty of folks here that NEVER share what they stand for and why. Attacking me is NOT a position. Be precise in your list of exactly how YOU would solve complex problems like 11+ million illegal immigrants, health care for 320 million people, an economy in tatters, racism from the top down, Russia, Syria, ISIS, migrant crisis in Europe, China... Kinda bored of peeps saying "you are so wrong and I am so right, just trust me." That don't cut the mustard in my neck of the woods.

Good day sir. May the force be with you.

 

This is old...
http://www.businessinsider.com/congress-forcing-the-army-to-make-tanks-2012-10

But it supports the fact that our government spends waaaaaay too much on the military.
I mean, spending money on the newest tech and support for our solders is good, but spending money on crap we don't need is just corruption.

The fact that so many of the Republicans said that we need to spend *more* on the Military is mind-boggling.

Spend less, but spend it smarter. That's supposed to be the Republican motto anyway, right?

 

This is my biggest disappointment with the Republicans running for POTUS. Less can be more, with proper leadership. Way too much military muscle flexing went down in the debate last night. The crowd ate it up and cheered a lot. I was NOT happy with that at all. Every country needs to defend itself. Some countries have, IMO, a responsibility to help and/or protect weaker countries. Guessing that the military industrial complex chaps are very happy right now. Sad panda. Intellect and steadiness and savvy are better than bombs by a country mile.


Edit, to provide hope because some people do learn from mistakes:

"The former director of Norway’s Nobel Institute revealed this week that he regrets the committee’s decision to give the 2009 Nobel Peace award to President Obama.
Geil Lundestad, director at the institute for 25 years, said in his just-published memoir that he and the committee had unanimously decided to grant the award to Mr. Obama just after his election in 2009 more in hopes of aiding the American president to achieve his goals on nuclear disarmament, rather than in recognition of what Mr. Obama had already accomplished."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/16/nobel-panel-saw-obama-peace-prize-mistake-new-book/#!

 

Or heck, maybe spend it on the soldiers directly. When you hear about the military budget, and then also crap like this: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/veteran...ion-mismanagement-uncovered-in-investigation/ (Not an isolated incident, AFAIK.)

Well... it doesn't look good.

 

Maybe the other countries should spend more on their military and defend themselves.

 

Yeah, if only more countries would invade others and throw them into utter disarray, leading to a refugee crisis we are now stemming while the US shoves its thumbs up the butt

 

I didn't say they don't use their military for anything. In fact I specifically mentioned parades. But I suppose they also use them to block refugees from getting in.

 

And I suppose your butt is doing the talking or you, as always.

 

guys, can we calm down with the personal attacks?

i don't give a Bane Shift what your opinion of each other is, i might even agree with some of them, but this is not the place to air them.

can we re-rail?