With the nerfs to DoTs cleanse is not nearly so useful as it used to be. There are not a lot of negative conditions in the meta game, dispel gets rid of granted buffs, things like RD, Righteous Shield , bubble of protection , dodge/block/deflect etc , it is infinitely more useful. And in the situation it can act as a cleanse for conditions like stunned/paralysed etc. How anyone can say cleanse is better/more useful than dispel is hilarious.
Wait what? Dispel can cleanse things now? Also the biggest difference is that without cleanse, champs die if they get cced by a competent opponent. The reverse is not true for the most part if you dont have dispel. You can play around not having dispel a hell of a lot easier than you can play around not having cleanse (unless youre UD). Your zealotry pants are showing pretty heavily in this thread old friend
It removes all positive AND negative conditions. You and I both know competent opponents usually 1 round champs, making cleanse pretty redundant. I've had more champs killed by spot dispel getting rid of my RD/Shield/Deflect than I've ever saved by having cleanse, but shrug, if you really think Cleanse is more useful than Dispel I dont know what else to say, wI guess we just have different opinions on the abilities. We are currently discussing the pros and cons of dispel vrs cleanse, which has no bearing on specific factions, but keep calling me a zealot if it makes you feel better buddy.
Super simple stuff: do people run purge for the cleanse or dispell? Trick question, both. Though the cleanse part sees more play, the dispell is generally more swing heavy.
Wait hold on this is tripping me out. Youre telling me that if my champ is stunned and i use cavernkeepers dispel on it, it will cleanse it? The description says it removes positive conditions, not positive and negative, so i never tried. If that is indeed the case then yeah dispel is obviously better than cleanse, because its cleanse+what i thought dispel was supposed to be. If thats not the case, then yeah cleanse is better. What spot dispel is there thats commonly run besides purge? If you rd a champ when a dispel champ is right there then youre an idiot. @Axeraiser
The reason i called you a zealot is because IS doesnt have dispel, so to you it obviously appears better. The fact that you think cleanse is redundant is slightly hilarious and im honestly giggling. Edit: could the fact that you think cleanse isnt that great be because you run champs with hallowed ground, cleanse, and consecrate the earth? As in, if the opponent tries to CC you it has a very small chance in succeeding (so they probably wont do it/rely on it)? Id say that right there is an indicator of the power of cleanse
Cleansing flame on NCP/Aria which I always run. And Wargroble has it in my construct BG so I am fully aware of how good Dispel is. I also run SL and UD on my alt and have Purefire and Purge single handedly win me games. 'The reason I called you a zealot is because IS doesn't have dispel' lmao.
I forgot about cleansing flame yeah, maybe thats why you think dispel removes positive and negative conditions? You do realize cleansing flame is not the ability "dispel" right? But none of that is "spot dispel getting rid of my rd/shield/deflect" at least besides purge (already mentioned) and purefire (not run very commonly)
Honestly they are both fine and both have their utility, I like cavern keeper a lot just for that 6 speed and with all the spell nonsense and super champs lately dispel is pretty great. Both runes are good but medic should probably go up a bit, honestly I would like to see medic get 6 speed to raise his cost a bit.
Aaaaaaand to come full circle here, this debate about cleanse vs dispel doesnt somehow validate your attempt to deflect attention away from dwarven medic and onto cavernkeeper. Im of the opinion that they could both use taps, but keep in mind cavernkeeper already costs 6 nora more than medic.
Putting him at 6 speed would actually be a really good idea. Cavernkeeper at 5 speed would definitely be a buff.
Hmm perhaps, and Purge also has the cleanse factor as well I just noticed. So maybe I'm mistaken. Either way in my opinion I still believe Dispel is stronger and more useful.
Hah. Finally people are starting to realize how much BS the "council" brings to the table. Good. At this point, though, I'm not even sure if we are better off without it, because Sok can't balance this game for the meta game.
Uhhh pede? Arent you the guy constantly saying that people like Axeraiser are the only ones who should be on the council? I mean i hate the council too and agree with you on a lot of stuff but.......... And yes, i think axe should be on the council Love you axey waxxy<3
"Constantly saying"? No, not really. Axe is not my bud and I don't think he's a "great" player or something like that. I mean, the guy thought Dispel worked as Cleanse. "face meets palm* What I've said is, given the current playerbase and considering people like Lushiris and Xirone and Skullinferno are in there, at least he plays at the high levels. But back in the days he wouldnt qualify, no.
This game is doomed to fail, not because there is bias or people who are unqualified to do the job, but because of elitist morons who think they know better than everyone else. No ones opinion or point of view is worth more than someone elses, I've seen some great changes be implement that have been suggested by people you'd call 'scrubs' and bad changes suggested by people you think qualify. The fact is people like you pede and baller act like children, your so full of your own self worth and import than you disregard anyone else's opinion if it's not the same as your own. Maybe you are right but if we can't make the forums a place for open discussion without resulting to bickering, name calling and insults and not try and regard everyone's opinion with an open mind, the game will never progress and the player base certainly will not grow. I've seen good suggestion by Xirone, Lush, and Skullferno that have had positive influences on the game. They don't need to play at the top level to have a grasp of balance or rune design. At the end of the day what's considered OP is a matter of opinion and perspective , it's not black and white. As for back in the day Pede I had even more influence during the CorpsE era as did everyone in Mercs. And look how the 'top players' impacted the game, the most horrific power creep that resulted in every single tune in the game having to be revamped as a result of it. You don't know best, baller doesn't know best and I sure as Bane Shift don't know best. But everyone is allowed to have an opinion that should be viewed neutrally regardless of rank, league, or faction preference. The sad thing is you could have a positive influence on the game if you didn't approach it with such negativity and a piss poor attitude.
See, heres the thing, I actually do know best 95%+ of the time *shocker* and have had a pretty dang positive influence on the stuff my fingers have touched. Im not going to justify myself to you, because if you dont already know what im talking about then you're even more out of the loop than what this thread has suggested so far. "No one's opinion or point of view is worth more than someone elses" AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OKAY AXE SURE BUDDY! Then why do we even have a council in the first place? Because deep down, everybody knows this isnt true. Theres a reason the best players have left the forums en masse, and its because they dont want to have deal with the crap that goes on here. Edit: and for the record, i have arguments/discussions with people all the time in game that affects how i view things (gutsa, cydna, therealkanye/hospy, mw24, taylor, kthx, even YOU, etc.), so to say that if someone disagrees with me i immediately disregard their opinion is kind of hilarious. I disregard opinions if they cant be backed up, the person making the statement has no clue what theyre talking about, the person doesnt provide any support and just makes a claim/statement, etc. The fact is, youve had zero idea of what we were even talking about this entire thread (after you tried to shift focus onto another factions runes *cough cough zealot*), and i still listened to you and heard you out. So get the fukc off your high horse **ballballer drops mic**
@Axeraiser: now with dispel clarified, do you believe medic and cavernkeeper are roughly at the same level ? I don't think Ballballer disregarded you (in this thread), as you did to bagoftrick. @Pedeguerra do you watch or play the game currently? How do you know what the meta game is currently?
I clearly remember Ryv telling CorpsE not to nerf stuff he deemed to be balanced. Only to see them nerfed after an overwhelming part of the community whined about it for times on end. He got silly sometimes. Like saying forglar jellyfish was totally fine after I brought it up, 6 months later that rune alone defined the fotm in the meta. Krebs was good though. Alg/Shaz as well. Sinwind was more of a Ryv. Can't detail others much. CorpsE was still CropsE. OH Bane Shift YOU BEAT ME WITH DOUBLE SKEEZICK MARCH?? +10 nora next patch. Never win with your own bg against CorpsE. You never did. Even if you beat him, he would beat you in the next patch.
