Faction Bonuses - Scale Down?

summons have special rules (cant cap fonts, aren't worth nora etc) so why do they get the faction bonus? seems to favor heavily factions that have stat bonuses.

 

Are you sure no one wants to see that kinds of Champs? Because thats how the game was in the beginning when everyone loved the game. Whats wrong with 8 speed KF champs if they cost alot? Whats wrong with high HP ST Champs if they have their normal cost and not other super abilities? nothing. Actually thats how it should be if the devs did not ruin the game by trying to vanilize the factions with nullifying the faction bonuses. I say it again, make all the devs make the Champs for the factions based on how they look on split. Then let whatever they look in FF be a bonus for the disadvantage of having access to the double amopunt of spells a split allows. And then make sure spells are different between factions, not just graphical doubles like we start to see.

 

http://poxbase.com/champion/1072 Let's throw Perserverance in the mix

 

I get your point and, well, maybe the bonus could be changed to better define the "flavor", then. How? No idea, but it would be a pretty tough task, specially if you consider balance and that good/bad perspective I pointed out.
As I said earlier, I agree with the idea of toning them down, or even changed to become more meaninful.
Just please, please, go ahead and change KFs for now, because they are ruining the fun for everybody.

 

I remember these times. I also remember that I used to make the KF high speed high cost, while others made them "effective". I also recall that my 8 speed KF decks were never viable at all, so no one was complaining. But it was fun. And it made sense. So yea, I dont see a problem that Champs for KF are developed so that same type of melee champ that has same cost has 7 speed 15 dmg in UD has 8 speed 11 dmg in KF FF. Then you can check how much is +1 speede from average speed worth in nora and then u can try to balance other faction bonuses around that nora cost "saving", giving the faction bonuses a fair balanced costing in nora just like now also other abilities are well balanced. This would give nice diversity between factions and especially give that special FF feeling of superiority that was always there in the past (but also was a huge drawback as spells could be more easily predicted by the opponent).

 

I agree that sets of runes with explicit synergy lead to more diversity, as was said above, if there are 5 tanks one per race/class that inhabits faction x, then we are likely to see more than just 1 of those tanks. And people like to have flavor, in attracted to playing lich and spirits for example, even though zombies are much stronger at the minute. It is that affinity that drives diversity.

Couple notes
1. If one theme is much stronger it will get played lots (elves for example)...some themes will inevitably have upper hand/fotm as opposed to themeless meta.
2. If we have many themes that self-synergize in a purely more is better way it makes bAlancing for full theme, "modules" (small units of a certain synergy integrated into larger whole),and meta impossible and so you balance around maximum impact, e.g. surge is balanced around full faction so surge base chanpions are inefficient in non theme full theme decks.
3. I am a strong advocate of perpendicular themes, for example imp and fire or witch and dmz. This allows for cross module bgs and interesting multi-theme ideas.

In other words, please don't make each faction a collection of mutually exclusive themes that share spells. Answer to diversity could be take 8 factions and make then 64 themes but that is not interesting strategically or conceptually.

 

Very godo said. This is exactly what I want too. "perpendicular themes" that can work together within the faction or with other themes with other factions. Big themes are bad, small themes are needed more of. Try to make bigger qty of themes rather than making few strong big themes,

 

Soklov, what is you opinion of meta bgs?

 

just an fyi im kinda liking this new in-your-face sokolov. the corporate mask SOE made the greens wear all the time got old real fast.

 

YES THIS MY FRIEND IS BEAUTIFUL! TY SOKO THIS IS BALANCE

 

I hope you guys got molten cloak cuz soko is fryin yall.

 

Just an idea to toss in here, what if you removed faction bonuses all together BUT made it so that it was possible to give each champ the possibility to "add faction bonus" it would be like a 3rd upgrade with nothing or faction bonus for a certain cost as an upgrade which would cost accordingly?
For example the FW faction bonus would obviously be cheaper than the KF faction bonus.
This way you get to balance out faction bonuses, as you could give each faction bonus a cost, which could difer from another faction bonus its cost, it allows for some more, yet simple diversity and will still make it so that factions can keep their identity.

As an example it could be something like this:

FS: "Every time this champ attacks you gain +1 nora"
FW: "If this champion dies its CD is reduced by 60%"
UD: "This champion gains +3 dmg"
IS: "This champion takes 6 less dmg from spells"
SL: "This champion gains tough 2"
KF: "This champion gains +1 speed"
ST: "This champion gains +10 max HP"
SP: "When this champion takes dmg you gain +1 nora"

It could be another added bonus in specific, but what about the idea in general?


Sincerely,

Josh753

 

@Poxbrothers
Most of these defeat the purpose of stat upgrades, would stat bonus:speed just be removed from existance?

 

Why would it?
You could still get stat upgrades.

1st upgrade path 3 abilities.
2nd upgrade path 3 stat bonuses of whatever kind.
3rd "upgrade": faction bonus or no faction bonus.

Tell me if I'm misunderstanding what you mean.


Sincerely,

Josh753

 

Just this 100% the smaller the bonus the more you can have different stat types in a faction, not everything needs to be 6+ speed in kf for the runes to feel fast. Same goes with any other faction. Does all of Ud need to hit for 15 plus? No we just need aggressive beaters to feal at home.

Free stats just throw off the algorithm (the stat cost is on a curve and is not linier) , by narrowing these margins we can have a greater variety of runes in a faction. that are actually paying for their stats properly

 

Ehh then there would still be the homonogized themes soko is trying to get away from, 99% of kf units would gladly take the speed where FW people would just not take the bonus in most cases to avoid the mana cost. Then there's SP and FS who would have to be costed so low that it would actually be useful I feel.

 

Actually, the game had factions from day one. However, at the start you only gained the bonus from them once 10 or 20 runes of that type were revealed. So no bonus on turn 1. And of course there was no requirement to use a specific faction. Due to the limited bonus, people largely ignored it. Once it was granted from the get go people started using 10/x.