Fake news again

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by super71, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. poxrooster

    poxrooster The Pox Chameleon

    I'm not understanding you. Are you saying that I'm arguing this?
     
  2. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    Nope. Just discussing the phenomenon.
     
    poxrooster likes this.
  3. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    See, I saw the gillette ad and honestly I didn't care too much. The only issue I had with it was saying that all dads say "boys will be boys", or that all men grab and touch women without consent. Why are men blamed for women being sexual graphic in music videos, or commercials, they were paid to do the roles, and agreed to do it, don't blame the guy for that, women should have looked for another role.

    I agree that some men are pigs, but let's not lump everyone in the same barrel here, and then gillette says they didn't know what they were doing, which again is being dishonest by the media people that made the ad. Personally I never bought gillette as the razors are way over priced, dollar shave club is cheaper and has hilarious commercials.
     
  4. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I thought more just anti-men, but even that seemed a bit of a push in my opinion. Video wasn't bad but it just categorized all men as sexists, and bullies, which isn't factually correct in any way shape or form. Maybe people think it was anti-white because they chose to only use white men as the bad guys in every instance, also it seems to be only men of color that come up and stop the guy from catcalling or doing something wrong, which seems disingenuous to me.

    No press, is bad press, same rule applies here, gillette has been bleeding money since the dollar shave club and other companies have come out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  5. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I don't agree men are pigs. I will agree there are men that are pigs, but no the statement men are pigs, is simply incorrect.

    People like to put these black and white boxes around things, I have personally in 36 years never seen anyone cat called, never known a man who ***** anyone, my home life was abusive but my mom was the one doing the abusing so maybe it's why I don't think all woman are some innocent snow flakes but neither do I think any woman other than her is responsible for that, I see men every day jumping through hoops backwards to please woman, but getting called pigs for there effort....so ya I just don't agree...

    I know there are rapists out there that's obvious, I know men hit woman, I know people exist that do far worse than even that but I don't paint any group by the worst members of that group, I also acknowledge every one of those characteristics can be found in any and every other grouping you can make, be the lines be drawn by sex, gender, age, race, nationality, or economic factor
     
  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    You have a seen a particular man jump through hoops to please a specific woman, and this specific woman called that particular man a pig? And that this happens regularly?

    Or are you making broad statements about people in general and pretending that they are the same people so you can make this statement?
     
  7. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    actually used an analogy, no generalization was made against any group.

    if it helps I will clarify without any analogy I see men every day(yes ever day), going out of their way to please their wives, gf's, bf's in one co-workers case, and getting treated like crap for their efforts.
     
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    Again, I ask, are you saying that there literally good men out there being called pigs by women SPECIFICALLY "for their effort" as you said?

    And that this somehow invalidates concerns some women might have about society?
     
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    I just want to know what this statement means. What is this an analogy of, exactly? An analogy is comparing 2 things, what are you comparing this to?
     
  10. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    well there are two statements that can be said to that.

    I literally am saying men get called the actual word "PIG" for their specific efforts though the word pig specifically mean little to me it could be any number of hundreds of insults, it's not some gacha moment that I don't hear the specific word PIG daily...that's just being petty an ignoring the point.

    those same men who try hard for their families and wives are then specifically called pigs by people like super just above, who get grouped in with the worst of them..and if you want to make a case that super is some outlier than you are not paying attention to the world right now.
     
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    Ok, so let me reframe what I think you are saying:
    1. There are good men
    2. There are shitty women
    3. There are shitty women mistreating good men
    4. Therefore, women, who may not be those shitty women, having concerns about men's behavior, is wrong, and you disagree with them?
     
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    I think any reasonable individual in these sort of discussions recognize there are good people out there in whatever group they are generally criticizing. Even hardcore anti-Islamists I have spoken to have acknowledged that not every Muslim is a terrorist.

    I really dislike this line of argument people seem to use a lot where they say "there are good X!" as though this means that criticize of that group is invalid, and that the person who says something like, "Hey, should we be encouraging this behavior in X?" is somehow saying "ALL X ARE BAD!"
     
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    You see this with cops. Every cop that gets interviewed on the radio here harps on "divisive rhetoric" and keep repeating how "there are good cops."

    To which I say:

    We know! Our concern is not the good cops. However, we want you to acknowledge there IS a problem in some cases, and we aren't complaining just to vilify all cops.

    ~

    And same with immigration issue. Many on the left label ANYONE who has concerns about immigration (legal or otherwise) as racist when there are VALID concerns regarding immigration policy in the US.

    Just because someone is concerned about border security or H1B visa abuse doesn't mean they think all Mexicans are criminals or all Indians are abusing work VISAs to get into the country.
     
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    The problem with those arguments is that the conversation goes nowhere. Instead of talking about the concern they have, you are basically trying to lump them in with the craziest part of their group - those who are unreasonable and LITERALLY say "all men are pigs" or "all cops are bad" or "all mexicans are racists" regardless of the evidence.

    That isn't most people. Those people DO exist, but you are literally doing the thing you are complaining about when you do this.
     
  15. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    actually not the point i'm making at all...in fact i'm not really making a point about woman at all...

    the first three points are correct I will even add 1 before reaching your final conclusions point.
    1. There are good men
    2. There are shitty women
    3. There are shitty men
    4. There are shitty women mistreating good men
    so now I ask you about your 5th point, in hopes that you can understand my position before reaching my conclusions

    Therefore, women, who may not be those shitty women, having concerns about men's behavior...

    right there is why I make my point....they have concerns about the behaviour of the shitty men (for the sake of this conversation let's categorize the shitty men as abusers, rapists, assaulter's, an leave out the grey areas like men wanting to talk to/date a woman) but then every man gets grouped into this narrative, till the general public uses phrases like "men are all pigs"
     
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    I don't see where super called all men pigs.
     
  17. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Maybe those arguments go nowhere because they are bad arguments, they didn't work when people were saying all black people are to dumb to not be slaves, they didn't work when they said all women were too stupid to vote, they are simply bad arguements.
     
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Desert Owl Games

    So when someone says, "The Arizona Cardinals were bad this week", you get all pedantic and say, "Hey, don't say ALL of the team was bad, their special teams was pretty good?"

    This is tiresome for everyone to always have to qualify that when they are concerned about a group they mean a subpart of that group. I mean, holy Bane Shift.
     
  19. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I stand corrected got caught up in too many thoughts and fogot his original statement
     
  20. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    it's not pendantic to specify who you are taking about when talking abut rapists, and sexual assaulter's, the comparisons aren't equal at all, neither will laws be written in response to a team losing a sports game.
     
    SPiEkY likes this.

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