Sok, the real problem isn't the Ferren theme per se, but the fact that over the years the game has changed too much, and a BG that focuses its survival abilities on attack damage prevention/reduction doesn't cut it anymore, not by far. Any BG with a decent amount of DoT or AoE damage abilities can simply wipe the floor with ferrens, because not only they will deal full damage to squishy champions( yes even with ST bonus), they will most likely prevent the ferren player from attacking, as it's likely that a couple spells should close the deal. And disease pretty much shuts down snowspinner, who is their only source of healing, unless you're willing to use a Cleansing Storm for every Rabid and disease Breath out there(although this is true for many themes when playing vs FW). Their damage output isn't bad, the problem I see is that they just don't survive long enough to actually deal it effectively. I'd like to hear opinions from non-ST players on this, but I'd like to see Stunned, or if it's too strong, Awestruck in Ferren Focus( agreeing with @Goyo ). However, I seriously don't think they need more relocation, specially after Swap's buff. Moving around with them is not a problem, the difficulty is actually shutting down enough enemies with Focus so you can in fact be somewhat safe from retaliation while you stack Sundered, specially because their debuffs don't really lower an enemy's damage( although Slowed does reduce the output from attacks). This would be enough if there weren't so many damaging abilities that ignore Scrapper/NKD/Majestic, but since that ship has sailed, the best I can see happening for them is having stronger CC. And yea, I don't think they're terrible, they can do very well against the few BGs that still rely on attacks to deal damage, but those aren't really prolific right now.
Ferren could get snow strikes that help against movement and some entangles verse flying. Like frozen wings. Hidden arctic should be their base ability. Ferrets in real life just disappear with out the snow for help. Maybe some shadow strike champs. Ferren Ninja could hold his own with that laying snow traps. Remember him Those abilities i mentioned should go away as soon as you deploy a non ferren champ and or work in snow terrain only. This way they are not abused in other bgs. Maybe the game it as this point as to have some specific themes or champs that just do not work well with others Adaptive could also work on snow spinner. The big frostfall dragon could have race ferren. It looks like a big ferret. Remove dragon race replace with ferren. It really looks like some one took a pic of my ferret smokestack and put antlers on her.
A number of changes happened to Ferren, including the Ferren Focus having Distracted removed from the chain. I've been playing them myself and they seem fairly competitive in most matchups so far.
I've been playing ferrens a while and my problem with them is that they lack the killing power. Out of the last 15 games I've played, in 11 of them, the champ survives with like 15 hp, after receiving 3-5 attacks from ferrens. Any other deck I use, and that champ is dead but ferrens can't pull it off. I remember when Ferren Dancer and Ninja had a "Discipline" ability and they seemed good back then. I would actually like to see the monk theme incorporated with ferrens. You was able to boost up their dmg and really shut down a champion. I was a bit more successful with a St/Ud deck cause of the extra damage from UD bonus. So in all, I feel ferrens would really benefit with more Discipline abilities and some type of heal/anti heal. Before I started playing them, I assumed they were all monks in the first place.
I've been playing around with ferren a bit and find that really their biggest downside is such poor damage. More often than not i find myself being 1 damage or 2 damage from killing a unit most times. The swap abilities are very powerful but with them all having to relocate into combat most times with like 50 hp and 0 defense it kinda sucks. Out of my ferren bg the average damage with 10 ferren champs is 8 damage. You factor in a faction like sl with their bonus and regen and any unit with 2 defense and you have a very bad day for your little ferrens. Also any half decent ferren is over 74 nora which isn't very good. I made this post not to long ago and it still seems to be true to this day. Ferren are actually very very good and when played by someone good at positioning they can easily win many of their games. I honestly like the way they are played right now kinda quick and lot's of swapping one of the few unique themes left in pox. @Sokolov Maybe make an ability like Swap master- When a friendly ferren relocates it gains +1 damage and a rank of multi attack for 2 turns this does not stack. As is i think ferren are quite competitive but need a slight damage boost to be really viable. Also snow spinner is very under rated, you would think st players would understand the importance and strength of a champ with orb of frost fall not only does it slow opposing units unless they are flying but it sets up snow shroud. My problem with him is if he's gonna be a support rune remove his damage and range it's just upping his cost. Remove those bump his hp and defense and give him grant: frost aura.
Are you running things like Coordination Tower and Halbred? I find those things help a lot with damage (the latter bypasses defensive abilities). I don't really want to turn Ferren back into Monks - they were moved away from that for a reason, so no on the Disciplines. That said, there is nothing wrong with Ferren who ARE monks.
I like the way they are played currently, they are a unique theme and should be kept as such. Snow spinner could also use a look at in just becoming a straight support champ instead of what he is now.
I'm kind of 50/50 on this. I agree, he needs some reworking, but I use him to start ff, test for righteous deflection or protection, etc. I mean, melee is going to be doing the damage so you want the champ to already have ff applied.
Ferren should have the debuffs last longer, cos if you can hit a champ 4 5 times in a round it should be eliminated, but they have very low dmg and enemy champs stick around too long. Especially with healers around. They probably should have brawler get rabid and inhibit healing and cleansing, they should all get hidden arctic with some burrow snow, all should get snow camouflage and get rid of NKD. Weaken spells is pretty awesome on them as they need to stay close.
I like the idea of ferren's getting better the more you have out. 2 ferren out and they get chill rank 1 3 ferren out and they all get snow camoflauge 4 ferren out and they all get +2 damage 5 ferren out and they all get hidden arctic or something similar I also mentioned to @Sokolov not long ago that ferren getting cool damage buffs for relocate would be kinda cool, and he said he was thinking about something like that. Ferren's biggest problem has always been poor hp, defense and damage. I love the way the theme plays and all the relocating and how unique they are, but they just aren't very competitive because of the defenses and low damage.
I'm saying it would be cool i much prefer them to get buffs through all their swaps and portal walking champs. Not surprised your being a **** on one of my posts again though, good day.
I'll elaborate. These kind of racials were implemented during the soe era, on themes such as yetis. They were boring and bloated, so were scrapped and will likely never be implemented again.
You don't even play st.... Stop pretending you know how to make themes better when you only play one faction, and the most overpowered faction at that. You also missed my whole post where I said I much rather them get buffs from swapping and portal walking. I'm gonna put you on ignore again so you can stop trolling me everywhere I post.
If anybody, anybody at all, believes that implementing a racial that's herp derp 2 ferrens = this ability would be cool, flavourful and balanced, please chime up. I wasn't bashing the portal/swap synergy they have at all, I really really want to see this developed - I was just referring to the other racial you proposed. And I don't just play one faction
Just was throwing out ideas on that, I prefer the swapping and what not as it makes the theme feel more original.
Okay, well sorry if my attack came of as a personal attack on you. I was just stating my belief. Swapping is so cool, pls expand sok (I'm sure you were already planning to).
Maybe make an ability like Swap master- When a friendly ferren relocates it gains +1 damage and a rank of multi attack for 2 turns this does not stack. That was my suggestion and sok said he was actually thinking of something similar, so we will see.
