First Impressions...

So much of the revamp simply states "I don't know this game" and I really hope that the PDC had virtually no influence here or else its on them as well.

 

I think one thing you do have a point about is that a lot of in-champ synergies have been screwed up for the sake of simplifying and reducing base abilities. The good thing is I'm certain they'll be a lot more receptive to our feedback (I could be wrong on this but there's no point in being pessimistic) and with the strong foundation set now the only direction is up.

 

I couldnt agree more. Doomies as an example. They had no survivability to begin with for the most part and most have less than ten damage. Now they are around 90 and will never see play. Harbies are even worse. What possible benefit comes with raising all former meta champs by 20 nora and leaving things like moga alone and even boosting them in some cases. Its confusing....

 

The main things I've noticed:
1) Quite a few sub 65 nora champs probably need +10 nora in cost as they are even more efficient than pre-revamp (Elven Strategist, DEP, Minotaur Sentry). Cheap champ spam is the new meta. Stitched, moga are out of control.
2) Most former 80ish nora meta worthy champs received +10 in cost as well as losing 2-3 abilities. This makes no sense considering 1) .
3) Some of the changes in range are odd. Demonologist has 1-2 range, costs 100 nora, has 40 hitpoints and little survivability. Vixen has 1 range and 30 something hitpoints? Just two examplse, how are these guys supposed to do anything in melee?

 

"let's go back to a formula-standard"

"what the hell made this pricing"


guess. all the champs are just, i believe, being held closer to the formulaic standard, with fewer manual modifications. higher base hp, i hear, scales up rather obnoxiously.


and getting specifically at baskit here, i'd say that it's more a case of people wanting to see how the game pans out with the proposed changes, as well as a lot of things to look over and on and on and on. i don't think anyone expected the game to be balanced right.

 

if i had to guess it's because the formula works like the old rune-forge thingy did, where the cost for a stat starts going up exponentially after the first few upgrades

like upgrading hp a few times was almost nothing, but then it started costing amazingly more. that sorta thing. ability costs, by contrast, are based on fewer ranks/are static.

i wouldn't expect the current cost system to stay exactly as is, for obvious reasons. kinda boggles my mind how many people see the change and blow up like nothing else is gonna happen ever

 

One could also argue that it's mind boggling that the devs saw all the changes to things on the upper end of the cost scale and then looked at the things on the low end of the cost scale then thought "yeah, this looks good"

 

Nailed it.

 

well A)i'm not arguing, i'm giving an opinion, and B)now that i'm arguing, the way i see the revamp (and of course everyone is free to their own interpretations) is as more of a first step away from the other system. the first champion step. not the whole of it. i think by now we all know that balancing in this game is never done.

so for me what it comes down to is they're changing the game from what it was to something very different. trying to figure out how to make the new thing function better before it exists is trying to fix a problem you don't know you have yet, to me.

again, just how i see things. y'all are welcome to your own opinions, however wrong they may be

 

Reading this thread from a to z leads me to these conclusions:

1. Devs have priced some runes wrong. Example: Firk Diplomat 96 nora. Some of it's abilities price must be inflated. Obviously the current pricing method doesn't work properly because otherwise we wouldn't have these kind of problems.

2. Themes have been mistreated in some cases. E.g.: Ferren. Discipline is too complicated and wrong flavourwise. Other players may find better examples, this thread is full of them.

3. Cheap meat rocks. Refer to point 1. I don't have a problem with efficiency being important but given that some abilities have been overpriced, runes with few or none of them have become relatively better.

This is a work in progress, we all know that. I really trust the devs taking our ideas into consideration. Probably most of the current imbalances will be addressed and fixed. There is no need to panic or quit the game imho. Just wait and see.

 

If I were to take a wild guess where the formula is off I'd pick HP and range.

 

That would certainly be a large part. But I imagine abilities that are overcosted is part of it. In addition is the likely issue of some discounts being too large. (Ghernbound)

 

@Dagda I think what @Sepulcher is saying has more to do with the values given to abilities inside that formula you are referring to and not that a formula was used. (And if you want to be more correct I think it's systematic, not formulaic.)

You've said on a few posts now that you don't get people bucking the change. Again, it's not that the change happened it's more how the change was implemented.

Think: The Obama administration.


If you are using a systematic approach but you've applied 10 nora for the 1WN ability and 30 nora for the rank1 HP ability then your system will produce skewed results.

 

i don't believe i've said that i don't understand people bucking the change so much as i don't understand why people assume that it is THE change, and that there will be no others. to me, this seems like the first step of a 12 step program, or something similar. a lot of what i'm reading seems to think it's the first step of a one step program, which just does not compute for me.


and sure, there will be problems with the formula. with any formula, in a game like this, there will be issues. again, the point to me is more to take the game away from where it was and put it into a new mindset. if it takes over-stating certain things (like a lot of hp/tankiness means this much, or whatever it may be), then that's fine. people will adjust, and i'm sure that the greens will adjust too (adjust the champions, that is)

 

I'm sure there will be other changes, however, you have to also consider the following:

1) We have no idea when these other changes will take place. So, this isn't much comfort to anyone who just had their favourite runes and/or decks crippled by this revamp.

2) Similarly, we don't know which (if any) of the future changes will make the currently-crippled runes viable again. And, we have no reason to assume that any of them will. We can hope that they will, but at this point that's all it is - hope.

3) I imagine many of the changes have made people wary of Owl's understanding of the game. To put it another way, if they're costing runes badly now, are we sure this will change in the future?

Don't get me wrong - it's entirely possible that the next few changes will balance everything out splendidly. My point is simply that we have no guarantee that things will turn out alright in the future and, until then, a lot of runes and decks have been made bad to the point of being nigh-unplayable. The transition stage might be necessary, but I imagine it's not a fun place to be for a lot of people.

 

i read literally that entire post as "change is bad pls no"

and then with a disclaimer.


i'm not saying i don't hear what people are saying, just that i think a lot of it is stupid/shortsighted/both

 

Don't worry, I'm sure many of your opponents think the same of your own arguments.

 

I'm probably in agreement more with Dagda, or at least from how I am reading him, though I would probably go more towards that people are just upset with the change.

As I said in an earlier post, the game has changed a lot since the Octopi days, and the group of players that we currently have now have gotten accustomed to a certain play style and a certain way of how things work. This revamp has changed that, a lot. This would generally be a good time in one sense for a new player to join because everyone now is going into this blind, and it is absolutely frustrating to see what you have spent years getting used to completely getting changed.

Gedden stated in the chat (I forgot to get a screenshot of it) that he will be patching probably every day for a short while and we will be getting more insight into the interview later today.

With everything said, the game has made a clear statement that it is in new hands. The core of the game is still the same, everything else has changed. My first impression is that we should be working towards bug testing and trying to vet the changes to 1300 runes. The second first impression that I have is what others have said, try going into this game blind. Imagine if you are playing a new game on the same engine. Imagine if PoxNora got released or whatever. People are upset and are comparing a lot of what currently is to what used to be and while their complaints are completely valid, I believe we should be doing what we have been doing in the past, comparing current runes to current runes.

It seems as though everyone from every faction seems to feel as though their faction has been nerfed, outside of SP, which is almost always quiet and people have considered annoying/op even if it was the silent op since it may not be the most popular. But I agree, it may be time to really go back and look at your runes, and really go back to deck building, finding the synergies that are not wrapped up in one rune, but maybe three runes, and giving this a try.

To me, this revamp did almost everything I expected it to do and went the way that I anticipated as well.

 

I agree entirely, the ony problem is that the game was on life support with only the core of pox zealots propping it up. Alienating them without gaining new players with this revamp seems to be the pulling of the plug. Its fine and dandy to say people are shortsighted. But unfortunately, its seeming more like there is no future. So there is no more time for these kinks and lets try this and that to see if it works. Where are they even getting funding at this point I keep wondering. And dont get me wrong, I love pox and want DOG to succeed, but there aint much time left.

 

So i ran a pretty decently successful crystal ST theme deck and now Endless devotion is an upgrade path also the spiders now have to have trail crystal i just dont want that. But honestly i think alot of stuff that was way over powered is a bit over nerfed but come on guys this revamp was needed and there will still be the ongoing process of adjusting things.