Giveaway #2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PoxBot, Aug 31, 2020.

  1. PoxBot

    PoxBot The King of Potatoes

    I will award LE runes to whoever can make the most convincing argument for why certain champion is a range tier's worst specimen. That is to say, you may argue for a 1 range champion, a 1-2 range champion, a 2-3 range champion, etc. No limits on how many champ tiers you apply for, but you need to make a different argument for each entry. The range only counts if it is a champion's natural attack range. That is to say, Preparation, Ranged Stance and other ability modifiers will not be accounted for. Here are the rewards:

    1 range: Three LE recolored runes.
    1-2 range: Two LE recolored runes.
    1-3 range: One LE recolored rune.
    1-4 range. One LE recolored rune.
    2-3 range: Two LE recolored runes.
    3-4 range: One LE recolored rune.
    2-4 range: One LE recolored rune.
    2-5 range: One LE recolored rune.
    3-5 range: Two LE recolored runes.
    3-6 range: One LE recolored rune.
    3-7 range: One LE recolored rune.
    4-5 range: One LE recolored rune.
    4-6 range: One LE recolored rune.
    4-7 range: One LE recolored rune.
    5-6 range: One LE recolored rune.
    5-7 range: One LE recolored rune.
    5-8 range: One LE recolored rune.
    6-7 range: One LE recolored rune.
    6-8 range: One LE recolored rune.

    I'll add or remove some of these if they turn out to be not on any unit or if they're missing. I will also remove any range if, for some reason, only one champ has that range. I will review all entries this weekend and award the prizes accordingly.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  2. TheRavager

    TheRavager The King of Potatoes

    I only have an argument for 1-2 range. That being Icefang.

    Here is my reasoning behind this claim:
    Etherielin and PoxBot like this.
  3. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    The worst range is corrupted ritualist he used to be 1-3 unit but then he got destroyed when it was changed to 2-3 the worst range possibly in the game .

    First 2-4 is a decent range for a ranged unit and 1-2 is perfect for melee unit.
    2-3 is unfortunately has no benefits yes it slightly cheaper than 1-2 but not by much, on top of that his ability doesn't really match his range.

    Defenseless make him vulnerable to melee attacks which make his range even worse if it was 3-4 it gives him space to avoid getting hit by melee at 2-3 its pretty terrible for him.

    On top of that he also has reflection 3 which I guess suppose to compensate defenseless but it just adds unessesery cost which could easily gone to his range change.

    I also want to point out sheoul bond is also very cluncky on him

    So I believe that he has the worst 2-3 range
  4. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    Necromancer is the worst 3-5 range unit. She's speed 5, 8 damage, and a squishy 38 HP. Originally she had some use to gain nora if you were able to engineer a kill with her, but that has been removed. She has two levels of Curse on one upgrade line, and on the other she has Elsari Coven, (Necromancers are Witches?) or Boost Skeleton. Her skeleton summon ability would be useful, if it wasn't a 5 turn cooldown and the skeletons had more than 15 HP, or 20 with her boost. I suppose the meat(bone) shield means she'll get one attack before she's engaged and no longer able to disengage and attack on the same turn.

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Mucker is the worst 1 range champ. It's entire identity is based on a gimmick which only ever works once against a player. In fact it works so well that one time you fall for it that you never forget it, and the champ fails to find any use what so ever there after because of it.

    The only use I ever found for Mucker was as a teaching tool to new players. Back when I was inducting new players, I would spend a few hours with them giving them tips and showing them, and how to solve certain situations and problematic runes. Teaching them how to deal with a Mucker was always the most amusing part. The idea behind my teaching strategy was to use the most frustrating bgs I could against them in a friendly environment so they didn't get discouraged from playing when they encountered it on their own.
  6. BrokenNeck

    BrokenNeck The King of Potatoes

    The worst 1 ranged without a doubt is ...Carrionling
    This champ has 2 damage and 4 hp - are weak unless there are many of them out and who can get that many out in order to do damage,

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    I'd be inclined to agree, but at least you have control of how your Carrioling functions. It's your choice, if able, to get a kill with it and use it's Swarm Carrionling ability. Muckers Split/Reconstitute gimmick relies entirely on hoping your opponent makes a mistake in dealing with it.
  8. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    Range 1:
    Captive Lorekeeper

    I'd literally rather straight up lose 20 Nora than deploy this pile of garbage for 32N.
    4 Speed, 0 dmg, 26 Hp.... as a support unit, IN UD.

    Not like it's preordained for some Gift of Scry usage, Oh no... no... You use it a Scry IF it deploys early, otherwise what are you actually deploying this unit for?

    You can deploy it at 37N for Weaken spells Relic, that has demon-elf bound btw.

    Would you even pay 37N for a weaken spell relic that needs Demon elfs to function properly?
  9. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    Range 4-5:
    G'hern Isangoma

    4-5 is definitely highly competitive in shitty units, but i gotta give the Bane Shift crown of the G'hern Isangoma.

    Mass heal 1, Deflect, resist Magic. 7 DMG.

    They were designing a tank, then changed they're mind and slapped 45 HP and 4-5 range on it instead. Is it even worth killing? 7 damage?

    If the average unit was double tapped by this pile of garbage it would only do 12 damage (1 def). I would 10/10 Dive all squishy Moga it's overseeing and let it hit me all game long.

    Where do you stand with this thing? do you stand in the back and Oversee while you're firing godly 7's.... or actually use its kit and get on the front, tank some damage, while being unable to fire back because you're too close.
  10. poxrooster

    poxrooster The Pox Chameleon

    Range 1 - Any champ with a spear attack

    Who designed this? How does a short range weapon not have a short range? If you have a spear, you're supposed to have a little distance between you and your enemy.
  11. rbkillea

    rbkillea New Member

    Range 6 - 8 has 3 options: Dwarven Mortar Crew, Skeezick Sniper, and Lich King. Lich King is immediately out of contention. I argue that Dwarven Mortar Crew is worse than Skeezick Sniper.
    Side by side, starting with Nora Cost. Sniper: 61 N; DMC: 85 N. Equippable? Sniper: Yes; DMC: No. Strong racial synergy? Sniper: Yes; DMC: Sadly less so. DMC has attack type fire, which at first seems like a serious improvement, but it isn't as useful as practically any other tertiary attack type (ignoring frost) because so many units have Immunity:Fire and Fire Eater. DMC has Artillery Strike, which can never be used the same turn as an attack and comes a turn delayed. Sniper meanwhile has effectively 20 damage half the time because of power shot. Summary: DMC < Sniper => DMC is the worst 6 - 8 range unit.

    Range 6 - 7 has 2 options: Jakei Heretic and Snaptooth Ancient. I'd say that Heretic's Adaptive is not worth the loss in utility and Fear < Phase Shift. But both are much better than Dwarven Mortar Crew. So, Snaptooth Ancient is better, Heretic is is the worst range 6 - 7 unit.

    Range 5 - 8 has a very easy choice between Elven Prodigy and Gnarlwood Launcher. Gnarlwood costs more Nora, is vulnerable to fire, is ponderous, all for plant regeneration, take root, and stone bomb. Whereas Prodigy costs less Nora, is slippery with elusive, has blindfire to get free attacks, and spends all of her time freely repositioning between launching her rains of arrows (and free blindfire attacks). Gnarlwood Launcher is the worst 5 - 8 range unit.

    Range 4 - 7 has one rune: Mirevixen. Mirevixen.

    There is no Range 3 - 7 rune.
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  12. Excalibur95

    Excalibur95 I need me some PIE!

    i have to totally disagree, you have to spend nora to killl mucker, almost what the champion is worth.
  13. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    Range 5-7:
    Zeventrench the last

    This'll be potentially controversial because he's such a UNIT.

    But at 133 Nora, its literally unplayable, this game or at least this meta doesn't let you competitively deploy 1 single champion for such an insane price tag.

    Thats the price of 3 AOE spells, a potential boardwipe

    Its definitely a werid rune having an insanely OP kit at a Shoebox price.
    IMAGIRL likes this.
  14. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    Range 2 - 5:
    Negation Mage

    Death charge 1, 1 charge per real death.

    Nora hex -1 Nora per 3 charges or Eradicate.

    While you wait the entire game to gain a few charges you can pew pew with your 9 damage, 2-5, easy target unit.

    Garbage btw
  15. Capitulator

    Capitulator I need me some PIE!

    There are 70 range 2-4 champions.

    I've reduced this to a shortlist of champions that are not tanks, supports, have no good pseudo-range or range extending abilities, and no pseudo-melee. Basically champions lacking a coherent design:
    - Darkmarsh Sorcerer
    - Deep Elf Temptress
    - Exorcist
    - Flame Dragoleech
    - Screaming Imp
    - Screaming Leviathan

    Hypothesis: Darkmarsh Sorcerer is the worst range 2-4 champion.

    It brings nothing to the table. Its low damage means the magic bomb is of little use. Abuse Charged encourages it to get hit, but with such low HP getting hit means it is dead.

    Are any of the other bad looking champions worse?
    Temptress: Much better HP/nora ratio, and is tankier via Charm/Fear. Same base damage but has Punish. Downside: 1 less speed. Overall better as it makes some sense in combat.
    Exorcist: Much better HP/nora ratio. Tankier via Heal Self and Hunter: Meek. Utility in Cleanse. Damage of 8+Hunter: Meek is about the same. Overall better as it is cheaper and tankier with some utility.
    Dragoleech: Slightly worse HP/nora ratio. Damage with Burn is about the same. Nora Leech + Nora miner is weird, but ends up net positive for you. Has flight. Overall better: flight is just too useful and soft-counters noragen.
    Imp: Slightly better HP/nora ratio. Damage with knockback is similar or better. Utility from distracting blows. Has flight (via Sonic flight). Overall better: flight and some utility.
    Leviathan: Much better HP/nora ratio, even considering Easy Target. Slightly tankier with Tough. Flight good, if run in a semi aquatic bg it has 7 speed. Not much point to Sonic Aura but it is on a 2x2. Overall better simply because it is meatier and tankier with flight.

    Conclusion: Darkmarsh Sorcerer is the worst range 2-4 champion. 71 nora of complete trash.

    And its rune art is horrific.
  16. PoxBot

    PoxBot The King of Potatoes

    Last 48 hours starting in 24 minutes.
  17. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Any unit with 3 to whatever range and 6 speed or less, if you get engaged you can't back up and attack.
    Any ranged unit with 5 speed, typically range units are supposed to shoot away and retreat out of the threat range, 5 speeders can't do this effectively.

    I don't know if we are counting patched runes or not

    Seeker of the source

    At one point had 2-3 range, with 5 speed because k'thir bonus even though we don't nerf runes because of their bonus.... I believe he actually started at 1-2 range, and then was nerfed to 2-3, and now is currently 2-4 which to me is still a bit crappy as it's not far enough to really be a ranged unit, and not close enough to be melee. He has detection, and lava walker, he used to actually have I believe fire acolyte or fire eater which made him quite effective in side fonts as he could drop a source crystal, retreat, and heal up a bit. He's caught between a support unit with detect, and source crystal, and initiate devotee, however most trees are vulnerable to fire, and inflicting 10 damage on your own units, to get an ability that takes forever to scale, set up, and gain benefits from is rarely a good idea, to top it off their are now too many options for dispel in the game now. Overall he went from pretty tanky melee unit with good heal options and decent damage with relic guardian, to whatever he is now.

    First watcher senshu

    Awesome rune, awesome art, 2-4 ranged, high hp, and high damage. Large unit, with weighty. Basically if this thing get's engaged by literally anything it's dead. When it was originally created i'm pretty sure absolute zero was a global ability, which made the unit a lot more playable. It's range isn't enough to make it a threat, absolute zero wants you to be within 8 spaces, which is a danger zone for this unit, snow strike is nice, but if you are close enough to attack, they will be close enough to engage. Great unit with bad range, bad size given his abilities, and really bad negative ability.

    Fun fact- Absolute zero is actually a character from Sentinels of The Multiverse, it's a card game where you and a few friends pick a few heroes and face off against a big bad boss. If you like co-op card games I highly recommend, it's also on the iphone and pc.

    Frostfall Hydra

    Just playing how did this thing get created

    Lodestone Builder, one of my favorite runes.

    3-4 range, large unit, with slothful.

    Sarnghavian Herder
    3-4 range
    5 speed
    0 defense
    39 hp
    Does it want to be a support, does it want to be a ranged unit, does it want to be up in the enemies face ? Unfortunately it does nothing well, except be a poor man's carrier squire. The range is the main culprit in this unit's inadequacy.
  18. PoxBot

    PoxBot The King of Potatoes

    Results are in.

    @chickenpox2 Two LE for his 2-3 range argument.

    @darklord48 Earns two LE for the 3-5 range category.

    @BrokenNeck Earns 3 LEs for his range 1 argument. Though IMAGIRL makes a convincing argument for top tier play and Mucker and I believe the unit to indeed be quite useless at that tier since all top BGs and players are equipped to deal with it, I still believe Carrioling to be the inferior champ. Agirgis's argument was also sound, but captive lorekeeper has seen much play in trickecks over the years. I have therefore decided to award IMAGIRL and Agirgis with runner up prizes.


    @Agirgis1 Awards for the 4-5, 2-5 and 5-7 categories plus range 1 runner up.

    @rbkillea For winning 3 categories and dismantling 2.

    @Capitulator For the 2-4 range category.

    @super71 earns the prize for the 3-4 range and runner up for 2-4.
  19. BrokenNeck

    BrokenNeck The King of Potatoes

    Woo hoo Yay me

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