Haunting Spirit : Ban it from ranked already

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mintdude1, Mar 16, 2017.

?

Ban haunting spirit from ranked?

  1. yes

    13 vote(s)
    27.1%
  2. no

    35 vote(s)
    72.9%
  1. Schmacko

    Schmacko I need me some PIE!

    I had Doom cast twice on me in one game within the last week. Fighting against a worms BG. One of the dooms was specifically in a side font battle between a haunting spirit and my magic dmg champ. Good times.
     
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  2. mintdude1

    mintdude1 The King of Potatoes

    Don't quite see how i'm the pot calling the kettle black as i've explained all my grievances, however you've just made a statement with no backup, so i also fail to see how you've explained it "for the 40th time"... but there you go, i expect some people to be tetchy when defending integral runes for there favourite faction :)
     
  3. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    wouldn't call it integral, it's just a font contestor. a ridiculously cheap over efficient font contestor, but not an integral part of the theme.

    if they were to lose the spirit and for some reason the deck became unplayable then the theme has far worse issues and it should be adjusted in the long run to hopefully make it a more stable theme
     
    mintdude1 likes this.
  4. Excalibur95

    Excalibur95 I need me some PIE!

    hs has been nerfed badly already in the past. can you imagine it used to be even more annoying lol.

    im for keeping as is, unless others can convince me otherwise. i rarely see it played now, perhaps if i did id vote yes idk.

    and no ive never played a hs or spirits, though i do play fw.
     
  5. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    It's often a problem in and of itself for only having limited amounts of magic damage versus ethereal anyways. Not nearly as bad as vsing mirrored without physical imo, but you can't play certain runes which may be essential to your theme. Or you just have a really bad draw.

    I'm going to make a thread about how damage types need to be condensed (there is no reason for tomblord to have attack psychic for example, instead of magical or physical.
     
  6. MikeLin

    MikeLin I need me some PIE!

    This is why I don't go on forums. All you guys make are some $hitty arguments.

    Personally, I never had problems with Haunting Spirit in high elo because it is so slow of a champion and you can see it coming from a mile away. And, as a result of everybody complaining to @Sokolov about the lack of alt damage all those years ago, most of the current tier 1 bgs only have like 2-3 sources of Physical and/or Magic damage(with a few exceptions like KF), and plenty have 0 of either. I.e. this is everybodies fault tbh.

    Instead I'm gonna make the discussion about Ghost, Vaporize, and Incorporeal in general:
    If u assume ghost units were champions without any skills or abilities, they would literally be a walking relic that can contest any font as it pleases. Furthermore, incorporeal, as a standalone, is one of the most op defensive abilities in the game currently, slightly less op then mirrored imo because, again, there is too much alternative damage in tier 1 bgs with a lack of physical and magic types.

    Lastly, insubstantiate takes incorporeal abuse to another level where they ALL gain stealth. @mintdude1, you think normal haunting spirit was annoying, try them stealthed, with depression and aura 2. This ability is just silly lol, gives GLOBAL stealth to a bunch of already hard to kill champions and it is perma stealth. Traditional means of countering this would be Detection, however when the entirety of your opponent's bg is stealthed, what good is one detection champion going to do?
     
    Etherielin likes this.
  7. mintdude1

    mintdude1 The King of Potatoes

    Yeah don't worry i know about insubstantiate and it is one of the most ridiculous abilities right now, but that's another thread for another time ;) i'm currently just looking through runes that i think should be adjusted and seeing what other people think :). Make the thread in general, i'm sure plenty of people will give their views on it mate :).

    I think the fact that you can see it coming a mile away doesn't really make a difference as you can't attack it with most champs/spells, so that's a factor that doesn't matter imo... however you are completely right in saying that insubstantiate takes things to a whole new crazy level... even if you do run detection you're still f*cked, i'm glad i only see zeya running it atm!
     
    DiCEM0nEY likes this.
  8. horrible

    horrible Devotee of the Blood Owl

    It's really not fair since it's not available to everyone. I wish they would do away with exclusive runes. It's bad for the game.
     
    Boozha, DiCEM0nEY and mintdude1 like this.
  9. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    Not sure where you've got that from, it's certainly not from experience. Doom is one of the most blatantly broken runes in the game, mainly because it's in FW.
     
  10. Skullferno

    Skullferno I need me some PIE!

    Buff Tortuns
     
    MaruXV, Schmacko and Woffleet like this.
  11. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    Just to be clear, it doesn't need to be banned. There are plenty of units with horrible design, and haunting spirits are just "another" and as many have pointed out, mirrored is better.

    I'm all for fixing the game, but weakening spirits further without changing the game as a whole is very frustrating to me as a new player, because it means all investment ends up being less enjoyable, since I can't compete as well against decent players
     
  12. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Cant see the problem with this rune, incorperal & mirrored is so easy countered, if you dont have magical and physical damage champs your BG are the problem :)
    Doom is boring, atleast they have to use 50 nora for it. Think its way worse with doom ability on champions then the spell, where the cooldown is just 8 while the spell has 10.
     
  13. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    because it's a 50 nora spell that has no pay off for 3 rounds and gives the opponent the freedom to do whatever they want with that rune and if you do anything to counter it than it is wasted resources.

    very sick of explaining this
     
  14. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    Incorporeal and mirrored are not easily countered by definition...only 2 damage types out of the ~8 available work. Not to mention MOST themes simply don't have access to magical or physical, aside from a gimped rune.

    No, these runes are a huge problem, they turn the game into a coinflip if you build decks which fit together thematically, while giving a huge advantage to players who abuse these types of runes with very few rune slot commitment, forgoing the other "bonuses" (usually sub-par due to poor design choices, such as removing commander and defender outright) for even more broken mechanics and balancing.
     
  15. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    lol
     
  16. mintdude1

    mintdude1 The King of Potatoes

    I don't think you quite get the extent as to how broken it is being able to sit a nearly unkillable unit in a side font whilst dooming a magic dmg champ (that rarely gets to hit the spirit) that is also out of action for 3 rounds from the main battle....

    I don't know why you always say "very sick of explaining this" as you have not explained anything at all from the short statements you've made in this thread, and on top of that, your attempt to explain something in the above comment is just babbling, you don't give specifics, you just gave a vague situation in which one of your spells could be countered.... welcome to the game of pox, a game where the idea is to counter and outplay your opponent to beat them. + the "payoff" of the spell shouldn't be judged on the 3 rounds previous to your unit getting wiped off the map... its just a silly and biased way of looking at it.
     
  17. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    "nearly unkillable" Im sorry what?

    and no being down 50 nora with no payoff whatsoever for 3 rounds is an extrememly difficult thing to come back from. Doubly so given that FW does not have the front loaded champion strength of 5 of the other 7 factions so coming back from that is not an easy thing if the opponent plays it right. If you find yourself getting ****ed up by doom often than you're responding to doom in entirely the wrong way as it is a huge window of opportunity to take an aggressive stance in the match. No details were given for what these actions were cause there's a ton of them and i'm not going to list them out. Yes the payoff is a dead champion in 3 rounds but congratulations, until then that champion gets to go ham on you and it's pretty damn likely that after going down a champion because of the extremely high cost of doom you won't be able to stop an intelligently aggressive opponent. Vagueness=broadness of situation. so yes when the spells counter is the opponent making the right decision to follow it, it's crap
     
  18. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Well both phys and magical should be availiable in all factions. stop think of theme when it comes to balancing. until either the factions are broken down into subthemes or there enough runes of each theme. if you build a pure fire, frost, psy deck, your bg are the problem not those 2 abilities.
    allthough maybe they are too cheap? no idea, i dont use them useally nor have any problem with them the few times i fight them. just drop a phys, mag rune and get rid of it.

    (Wouldnt mind if there was no champs that could take fonts that did cost less then 50nora)
     
  19. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    OK the include magic to beat a pure ghost bg is actually a pretty bad one and I keep seeing people using it...

    Their are literally dozens of runes/bgs in pox that can only be answered if you include the exact runes to answer them.

    In the top meta right now you have my KB bg which certain runes in the meta does very well against, and has physical immune and mirrored champs.

    You have prince leafs rush which is essentially play yetis or lose depending on map.

    The sl/KF aspect of violence deck which is mostly only countered by physical immune and purge.

    Skeletons run by tiny which honestly anti summon might help against but I don't know.

    Board wipe ud/fs run by davre which ca2 counters well

    if you some how include counters to all these decks and more, you need to beat sl and fs meta decks which are as good as any of these while doing it through pure efficiency, which has no counter except more efficiency or a bad draw

    So the just include magic and be good theory is bull Bane Shift because if you include sub par magic units to deal with the spirit decks then you lose to the far more prevalent meta sl or meta fs decks

    I don't have much of a problem with ghost or spirit aside from thinking they are to cheap but this argument to me is terribly short sighted, that's not to say a deck should or even can counter everything but don't try to act like the fact that it is possible to counter something is in anyway always a good idea
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
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  20. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    lol
     
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