Help with a wonky Equip/Relic BG

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by Thbigchief, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    More good bg ideas please @aseryen and @Thbigchief
    Especially with the coming medal of valor ending up in a shoebox with just one +1dmg per turn and in aoe 5 and no healing, wtf are they gonna add 3 nerfs on it at the same time?
    Playing around with armory + carrier squire (for the Holy Armaments +1ap+3dmg) and etheral hammer its not so bad combo, need some unit that can make relics infront of the armory though so its safe at a far distance behind everything.
    Havent noticed if i get 12 or 20 nora back from the hammer when it goes away.
    Maybe its better to use holy blade of valdac, attack, drop it, get CtE, next champ picks it up for +3dmg
    aseryen likes this.
  2. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    I haven't seen the change for MoValor but that's kind of sad...thats certainly a weird nerf, I'd rather have the bonus Dmg capped but the rest can stay. The healing was always a bit much but because DOGz is on this dumb crusade of no new abilities they have to nerf stuff into oblivion effectively creating new abilities...I really don't get their design process.

    Actually I do, OPrelease, nerf, shoebox, buff, buff, buff?nerf? on and so forth.

    They need to make the original design of MoV a limited rune cause I'm tired of DOGz tricks...and while they're at it release Quagmirrian with Nexus Aura as a limited rune too. And, and...I could go on and on about how to generate money schemes or content...

    As for equipment bgs go...Holy Armaments is the way to run it and really the equips you suggest are the more solid ones to run. Grintmaw Sealer and Rock collection seems nice because of Recharge but I wouldn't really want to run Sealer over other potential 5spders.

    MoV is not like any other equip so there's not really a replacement for it. It's back to juggling that final slot for Crusader or an Equip rune in that case. Imo ToV is going to be your replacement rune if you don't already run it, and for the low cost it is a good spell to see if your opponent has Backfire or anything like that. MoV was nice cause it effectively freed up a healing rune and dmging rune slot if complimented correctly. It's not like every instance MoV was used it was OP but because one rounding is so easy...well it just snowballs too fast which is why I think a cap is more appropriate rather than a dinky little ae5 drive.

    Rock Defiance and MoV was great because those units got +max hp and then could get healed to that max by MoV. I'm not sure how much other themes benefitted from the heal other than the straight forward healing it does. Rock Defiance and healing is always going to be a bit stronger than other themes because they can increase their max hp.
  3. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    I never needed to use craft so I was able to replace armory for Builder which helps my bgs a lot more. The two (armory and Builder) together is kind of unnecessary for my taste.

    Kind of how I feel with MoV. Running MoV, Manual, and ToV is a bit much so I opted for MoV over manual. If that is really the nerf Medal of Valor is getting Manual is certainly a better pick, just changes the focus of how you play a bit but not by much.

    Manual and ToV has always been an OP combo but I stopped playing it because I ran MoV in place of Manual. All in all MoV was nice because it did so much and freed up some slots for my bgs. Idt much will actually change though as far as what I run.
  4. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Preparing for the loss of MoV is actually kinda fun and challenging, think ive found some options. By looking at battlemaster/commander, with as much class/race combo as possible to cover atleast most of my units. That with Holy Armaments makes my inquisitor go from 11dmg to 20-22dmg. What ill miss most is the small healing, that +4Hp/kill was just too good, its like giving all my units a special regen+2, combined with normal regen2 from dwarf beermaiden. no other heals was needed with 8-12hp/turn.
    Tactial Manual is ok, its atleast alot better balanced, but for weak barbarians/dwarfs with 40-45hp in base, its not much to hope on. Its great on a fully buffed dwarf defender that has 75hp or Grintmaws that get Rock defiance going.

    Looking more at hammerheart platemail, 25% less damage is better then 1-2hp heal/turn, and use 2 Holy blade of valdac for CtE, drop-pickup abuse. Even the silly Carrier Squire goes nuts with battlemaster,commander and a holy blade 15-16dmg.

    Rock Collection gets used in PvP, all from Dwarf tinkerer with ReCharge to be able to use it very often, to Archangel of al'mara to provide a physical dmg option. Not sure if Rugolth's Fist can be used in the same way, its so long cooldown on it, but massive aoe.

    So maybe its good that MoV gets nerfed :p
    aseryen likes this.
  5. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - Yeah I'm finding Forge hammer to be the best for a surprise burst turn since IS has always felt hard to surprise your enemy with. You can rush up a axeman/ warden then slap F. Hammer on them and then throw down a Guard Tower for relic guardian + battle master stack + provision etc. Then you got a log jam...especially if follow up by a providence or a granite bracer before or after for some punishment of movement or counter power turn.
    Hierokliff and aseryen like this.
  6. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Need to test this with carrier squires holy armament, should be like +3+2+4dmg, then +2fire dmg from branded. macadamize and commander for another 2+2dmg. hmm i see how Bastion could make my enemy crumble or pureblood plainswalker with its multiattacking.
    so far iam not getting it to work, either its me that isnt doing it right so i get optimal power when i need it, or its better to use those 130ish nora on getting out 2 other combat champs then forge hammer+guardtower+carrier squire.
  7. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - Yeah in my experience, it works best on axeman since he's so cheap on the front end. But tanky enough to survive an engagement
  8. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Yeah master axeman or weaponsmith, cheap solid runes that needs an equip. And not use carrier squires also for just that boost. i do really like the holy armaments buff, its probably OP and should be nerfed, especially with the ability to drop holy blade of valdac and pick it back up for +dmg and +ap if i cant get off doublehits i can still get extra dmg and heal and cleansing in holy decks.

    Testing equipment heavy BG with the Armory atm, the Armory is there to help me find my 6-7 equips as fast as possible and remove them from the 2 scry runes/turn. Still not sure if its actually worth using it early in the game, its 35 nora for scry 6 runes, sure after i get extra nora to deploy equip it pays itself back pretty fast, but that is atleast 7-8 turns into the game.
    Problem to find useful equip, especially without medal of valor and holy blade of valdac.

    Testing st semmirs brew, tactical manual for that extra lil heal each turn that medal of valor gives. Writ of al'mara is worthless with such a huge drawback so dont want to use that. But really 25nora for 1-4hp/turn isnt good enough.
    No, heal equips are out of the question, its granite bracers and maybe hammerheart platemail if i just remember to not use it on my resilient champs.

    cant remember if flamethrower and crossbow are worth looking at
  9. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Static damage on them, so only worth using on very very low dmg units.
    Flamethrower is ok on any 2x2 unit though since you can flame 6x2 squares with it.
    But its 40nora, so probably much much better to use a spell or dmg relic.

    Heavy crossbow isnt heavy at all. it should atleast do dmg +9 like a piercing shot, then we could talk about Heavy Crossbow, its a static dmg of 12 if i remember right.

    Ethereal hammer, wish it did go away faster, 8 turns is just too slow. 4 turns would be much better or heck 2 turns would be amazing, remove that nora refunded, i would just want an equip i can re-equip fast :) without using shatter/disarm+craft

    Golden Compass, works best with Blitz (or Bold units) units since you are going to play that style anyway, why not double the effect, atleast i think it worked together
  10. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    I'd just like to say Rockslinger is pretty good with its Dmg scaling.

    Valor is nice on it. As is Manual to always have a Dmg boost. And with +1 range from bouncer that can be pretty nice.

    Dwarven Module Approved:

    Sepulcher of Kings
    Holy Blade of Valdac

    Can also be played with Groble/Spare Parts to get Rock Defiance on every Dwarf. And of course for the Equipment use Stonearm Sash.

    Now I want a Dwarf with Holy Armaments!
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Re: MoV, the Crate is a bit out of date with regards to MoV:

    The final version is:

    Equipped champion with MAX RNG of 2 or less has <ability value=2392>Battle Leader</ability> and +1 SPD.

    Meanwhile, Battle Leader will lose the heal on trigger.
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I love Forge Hammer... but I love relics too so yea...
  13. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    Oh the hammer getting hit with the nerf bat?

    Can IS get a limited rune called Nerf Bat
  14. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!


    Let's just say there are two Bouncers deployed. One with MoV, the other just out of range to improve the other Bouncers range.

    The equipped Bouncer kills the opponents monster it was engaged to, then the other bouncer moves in range to extend its range to 1-3. Will the equipped Bouncer lose Battlemaster?

    I figure that when improve range is calculated and adjusts the range it would also check other abilities and then act accordingly. There are some abilities that don't get procd until that unit moves so I'm not sure if that is the case here.

    It's a limited interaction since there aren't that many ways to improve range but it popped into my head right when I read the update to MoV.
  15. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Could test that with sunder axe. atleast i hope this mechanic is used on alot of equipment.
  16. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - also sunder axe needs a barbarian clause!!
  17. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Sunder axe buffs both +dmg and sunder is removed instantly when a unit gets range 1-3 instead of 1-2, so i guess MoV would work the same way.
    Now the big question is, will it work on terraformer or other non basic attack abilities? imo the problem wasnt so much that it could be used on range as on terraformers or nova units.
    aseryen likes this.
  18. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    I really hope you fixed Reaper's Blade to be MAX RNG of 2 also while fixing things.
  19. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    why? reapers blade isn't really that bad there's a lot of ranged units that can kill things in 4 hits or less
  20. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Its horrible, its a weapon like sunder axe/blade of the snake, should be melee only.
    Only ranged unit that i know off that are almost as powerful is fully buffed Pureblood Plainswalker if you let it hit 6-8times to get that quest:damage going, and have commander/battlemaster/drive buffers around it. But that one you can plan for or have a counter. Dropping a 45nora dagger on a support/meh ranged unit and smack 2-3 times, is bah :)

    Its not as bad as forbidden fruit is/was, but that was atleast melee.

    hmm cant figure out so many ranged units that can do so much damage against a tank that is ready and in position to take som beating. Sure a few have bombs that goes through defense/evasive/resists, but those are useally easy to predict and have cooldowns.

    Think iam just grumpy because MoV loss will hit IS very very hard.

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