Does anyone have a good handle on cyclops strategies/bgs? Can people post their bgs and explain synergies that work competititvely? Finally is stone caller good? Thanks!
http://poxbase.com/#deck/c98C7dC8oCq6ChIcuGcwJctZcd5c2GCq3coKs3ts7ys59S82r2YR26rOEke1Qe2H This is what I ran... Here's the breakdown: all the tribal hut and its cyclopses EXCEPT MAULERS: Maulers are good and hit hard, but depending on the playstyle. Drudge, Earthshaker, and Lurker can be played flexibly: conservatively, rush, or a buildup. Maulers can only be played 1 dimensionally. I personally don't like his design as a grunt. (1.) Drudge: always use Drudge whenever possible, especially early game.champ (2.) Lurker: You have to estimate where the opponent support champ will be (estimation can range AoE 1-2 to allow you to do 1 constriction the next turn with 3 AP + movement). He's 5SPD, your opponent is 7SPD. No way you can catch them + constriction without some accurate estimation. (3.) Earthshaker: aside of being a tank (or a stupid tank against ST gay range and atk:frost, or grimlic), this guy's main use is to 1) frontline: tank, 2) backline: RELOCATE RELIC. This guy's main use is really just relocate relic. Once u destroy ur opp's relic whether for contesting or whatever, that's basically "Relocate: Relic + 8AP (to destroy the relic) --> Opponent loses 25-40 nora)" especially if the relic is a buildup one like Unholy Tomb or Earthshaker (that can be used multiple times and have lotsa HP to contest a font). So all the Siblings champs can be used as a grunt, a damage dealer, and a tank (only relies on HP). However, Drudge slows down your opponent if they're clumsy. Earthshaker also provides a tempo hit if they're clumsy. While Lurker just kills your opponent if not disabled or detected. (4.) Warwizard is a good early game champ providing +AP for basically instant 4AP, despite losing 8HP. I like getting a second turn deploy with Cyclops Youth + Warwizard. Youth basically gains Initiative 2 (given 2 opposing champs), and Warwizard gets +1AP from its base SPD. He's quite flexible. I like this guy. (5.) Cyclops Shaman is always an MVP. You can surprise your opponent by fueling spells to provide that extra 1AP to one-turn someone. Entangle from 4-6 RNG. And an alt damage. AND Corrupted Nora. OR a cyclops eye belt slammer (6.) Runt is used as a frontliner, but always count Lethargic. If opponent tries to play around its Lethargic weakness, put a Whispers on that champ (running away once you hit the 5 turn click). (7.) Primal is essential for quick font capture or backup, and also if you're up against FW spellspam. (8.) Chieftain is self explanatory for AoE and Boost. Nothing else. (9.) Wardrummer. Once you're sure you're gonna go deep into the fray and would get spellspammed or anything, deploy this guy, not as an Improve Speed guy via Vitalize. I use this guy (after calculating possible damages and such), as a counter-power turn, providing he gives +8HP, +1SPD, and a possible Battle Drum to decimate your opponents if you survive the powerturn. The key to using this guy effectively IMO, is to understand each faction's powerturn and calculate possible damages that would NOT kill your clops (KF reclaim hit and shet, 2x aoe, 2x ice storm, DB, double quicken, etc). and deploy Wardrummer 00:01 seconds before your turn ends so opponent's calculation will be screwed over quickly. Now moving onwards to spells: I don't use Tribal War and never will. Will be explained below why... Playstyle: People often thinks that Clops have to be played like other type of BGs. For me, they have a specific playstyle: CREEPBLOCKING. I don't want opponent to have the same access to as many 2x2s as I do. I don't like Tribe War because of that. I get counter creepblocked. You have to understand the map and bottlenecks, and try to 1) ASAP block the middle font with a 2x2 unit, and get Siblings bonus quickly for that extra HP, and Warwizard for AP movements quickly. 2) Quickly just block every important paths in a map to seal opponent's movement. You don't have evasive or anything, but an abundance of HP. But be wary of Grimlic/Mena/Moga Cannon/Jakei Elder. Those will definitely kill your playstyle. 3) Clops WILL lose if you're playing them like other hit and run BGs. They have to deploy quickly, block and seal opponent movements quickly (drudge, constriction, entangle, engaging an opponent). 4) Big HP Big DMG is EXTREMELY IRRELEVANT if you can't even touch your opponent. 5) I don't use Vicious Harpoon/Slaver's Whip/Alacrity/Zealotry because I don't have the slot. Zealotry is useless here because what you need is deploy, blocking. 6) VP is extremely important when opponent have rushed the midfont. VP it, don't care about the tempo hit to your nora pool because Cyclops are cheap and 2x2. Once you get even 1 turn of the midfont, deploy as many cyclops as possible to block the font. 7) Cyclops Eye Belt is there to help you out by going into a font, (opponent will take the 3 spaces farthest away.) You hit them once, then block their movement by engaging them, hopefully your 2x2 will be able to take the font by forcing and limiting your movement. That's all about playstyle, basically blocking, deploying massive 2x2 HP roadblocks and quickly limiting your opponent's movement. Now, people often sees Cyclops as OP because of their damage and stats. Sure, 6DMG is too much, but even +3DMG plus all the bonus would still put them on the highest tier of DMG. The problem is actually able to hit your opponents, and moving your cyclops around. I guess that's why haven't seen a lot of Cyclops player despite the cries? Maybe its because they're used to phalanx, or hit and run kinda playstyle which suits everything. The closest would be a UD rush but instead of Sacrifice, you preserve your champs while deploying more and more to block. Cyclops Counters: (almost auto loss) Gale Force, Reclaim, Moga Cannon, Grimlic, Menaulus, Elven Mage (anything with high range and Teleport basically kills your BG). Oh, and almost forgot: IS - Heroes are sheer death cause of their efficiency and tankiness. Those are basically almost auto loss. Even FW haunting spirits are almost, but not always. If they don't domi-cliff and Doom all your Primal + Chieftains, then you're good. But limiting your movements is almost an instant loss. And by playing a cheap 2x2 slow BG, you shouldn't care about tempo hits like VP. Even if it doesn't instantly kill an opponent, if you can secure a font, or get a kill out of the VP'ed champs absence, you can still win the font. Just be sure to mass deploy. That's why Primals are in there. If you get ranged a lot and are losing champs, Primals are your backups for more HP blocking. And also, people often forget about Drudgery, Corrupted Nora, and Relocate:Relic. That's their own fault, not because of the champ's opness. Stone caller is too expensive.
Ya and becareful of creepblocking on bottleneck areas due to Spellspam + AOE, just dont be scared to rush and engage. Every other BG will chip away your large HP pool if you dont engage as fast as possible. Especially since Earthshaker is the only one with Res: Physical. The clops racial don't have any protection from AoE and alt damage high range champs. Nor do they have Arrow Eater, Absorb or such. So u can only tank with your HP. Some maps and unlucky draws are autoloss.
Just made a cyclops BG, and had a question or two. What is the viablility of running 2 alpines? On some maps, not getting alpine until your last draw is kind of a pain. Mountaineer just makes maneuvering a whole lot easier on quite a few maps. Also, what upgrades would you suggest taking for primal? From Initiative/Vivify and Encouraged/Surge:Behemoth. That was a really informative post RedScarlet, appreciate it
1 Alpine (+) more chances to rush when you're creepblocking, draw that primal and rush it. (-) In certain maps, autoloss. When this happens, no one's gnn cry OPnerf. Figures. 2 Alpines (-) might be autoloss if you still dont get this guy turn 1-2. (-) dead draw in certain maps, and ineffective grunt at most. Im leaning towards 1 only for powerturning someone or gibbing font by surprise through unpassable terrain. For primal, I use initiatives and surge because I only use him to beat up ghost champs and his role in my BG is a rush killing machine. If you're using meta goodness I prefer Initiative + Encouraged. Vivify is good but most of the time pulling off a single attack is already hard enough. You wanna benefit from multiple attacks from the same race.- CYCLOPS? For sure its not going to be effective.. Whats funny is that I stopped hearing op nerf cries on clops. I stopped playing clops and i also dont see anyone else playing it... If its so OP and there are no nerfs, why doesnt anyone else play it?? The only answers Ive heard: "coz theyre ugly" but when a cry is done, the masses goes all technical "dmg:nora ratio, hp: nora ratioooo". People shud try playing it first before they try to influence developers with idiotic assumptions on balance.
How do you deal with the high damage from FF UD? I've basically been stomped out by every FF UD I have ran into since this BG pretty much completely lacks range. I get picked off very quickly, or am unable to muddle through a 40-50hp champ with 20+ damage since I can't get champs positioned for attacks, and no backline support.
Yeah, but most UD are squishy. Even vothsair reavers. Whispers for quick rushes or DE Priestess. U got tons of health, go up and bait that DEP into attacking (i move my clops to her melee range and do not one turn her) 1 sec before my turn ends. If the pilot is a noob, theyre gnn hit ur clops first hand with 10++ dmg multiattack to one turn. In turn they cant one turn my clops + got distracted = no relocate. Sheoul magus + squishuies = Thunderhead totem K'lzik = not sure almost gg, u have to one turn, but the spiders blocking u is gnn b harsh. Fiery Ambush = gg. U lose. For sure The hardest things are: Summon Imp (u lack detection), Fiery Ambush on midfont (ur gnn be clumped behind midfont and get into the opponent's positioning flow), Deep elf summoner's high dmg + 1-3 rng And well Klzik. Other than that u can still facestomp most with frontlining Hauler
I finally got the warwizards and the shamans. I have been running the maulers instead of the lurkers. I feel like since they can pummel, they arent really too bad with turtling esp since once they engage, the enemy is usually dead. The +2 speed is clutch too
I prefer maulers to lurkers, personally. Berzerker can be enough of a draw win to justify running them just for that, imo. Plus they are great beefy brawlers
Lurkers aren't bad when you get both up with tribal hut... but without sibling they are pretty terrible.
yeah I can agree with that... Maulers benefit from hut too so that's another reason to run them tho. I do like the idea of lurkers, but in practice they are hard to justify. Too few maps have chasms to benefit .
Even without chasms, I usually use them to single out supports or elven mage or etc. or to stall tanks from getting to the frontline. Or to take a font. Doesnt have to benefit from the chasm, i just use em like a usual stealth champ with loads of hit power and Hp And yea without siblings theyre very subpar...
