I rather not-have a discount or adjustment for SL heros and wait for a full redesign on Vex. so the little change doesnt count as "touched already" in a "to fix" list.
Hmm....those abilities are pretty tight. I also think many of the St players would hang me if I suggested any change to most of the upgrades. I'll get back to you I have an idea I need to work out first
I mean, based on what you are saying, you'd just remove the pet and have him as a sub-80 nora Hero, right?
Also, I've already done multiple passes on Heroes since I came back, so you should expect that most are pretty good on costing vs abilities - they just don't get a -15 to -25 nora modifier anymore like that had in Corpse era.
Note that all 3 of those have been nerfed since I came back. That said, I am interested in hearing what problems people have with those runes now though.
What does this mean, by the way? What specific changes to Juya do you feel was intended to be someone's "best efforts" to make her unplayable?
I remember Wellspring being redesigned because it was very abusable, i dont remember the rest of her kit being changed, do you have the previews build to see what was changed? I find her upgrades and her role lacking and boring, a redesing should aim to fix her role and build choices, to me anything that rellys on surge sucks. She is a melee beater with a cool aura, but for the aura to be usefull for more than 1 trigger you have to keep her alive, not in front lines.. Her first upgrade line are all just abilities that give her atk, surge draksar on her makes no sense, she will never be better at that role than a draksar, she overlaps with the one thing SL has too much. All her first upgrades could just be condenced to "Protective" and free two slots... but even then whats the point of having her in front lines with so many other choices in this faction.. Her second upgrade line are two charging abilities and she has atk charged on base too, so we waste a complete upgrade line for wellspring.. i wouldnt even put deploy charged base. SL is getting away from charges, mutants will eventually use the rotating ability system and "processing collar" will be redesigned at some point so imo a great fix would be to make Wellspring trigger if Vex has 8 or more AP and drain that AP. then give her AP heavy or High CD abilities and no dmg stacking abilities, so the player has to choose if using Vex in battle or leave her ready for Wellspring one turn. Would look like this: Vex -stats- Dmg 10 Def 1 Spd 6 Rng 1-2 HP 55 Base: Attack Phisical *ability that works if this unit does not spend ap or an additional aura* (like Readiness) something different or a tanking ability like Empower Dragonflight Hero Wellspring (redesigned to trigger and drain 5, 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 AP, this saves one dying champ for one attack, NohKanDo saves several hits for 2 ap each) U1: Terminus (to work with ap Draksars), *ability that works with Dragons*, *ability that changes how you gain AP or even how you play this champ* (like Energy Thief, Enervating Touch to work with U2 melee choice or Escalating Rage, that gives full ap some turns) U2: Flamethrower (or another not-bomb AoE), *CC ability*, *disrupting attack ability* Edit: i would give her "mutate" as an option but looks like SL's midterm champ is a mutator
Well if I was designing the rune just for me....maybe, but I'll try to come up with a design that keeps everyone happy, or in other words an upgrade path for everyone. Since someone mentioned the regen/protective tree which happens to be his cheapest build with mediocre abilities. stats - damage - 10 range - 3-4 speed - 6 def - 0 hp - 48 abilities attack physical hero arctic pet - tusk beast herder upgrade 1: domain - arctic guarded beast commander: beast upgrade 2: protective vivify coordination Tusk - abilities - remove : mobility - remove : resistance physical -1 - add : trail - snow - add : domain - arctic Iit's still rough, not really sure about everything atm just curious of the cost of the currently suggested abilities and stat changes so I can get an idea of where he would be with these. also not sure how popular drive was, I mean it's not much of a loss to beast decks if it was run since they can get that from lonx beast tamer if need be.
Sidenote: Why are you so keen on everything in ST being terrain based? It seems many of your suggestions revolve around turning whatever rune we are discussing into a terrain rune? Why does Azaren need to be both a Beast rune AND a terrain rune at the same time? Would it be better if we made Gnark into a terrain theme Hero since he doesn't really have a place in Lonx atm? And since when are Regen and Protective "mediocre" abilities? Do you think they should cost less? Trail: Snow seems like it's pretty sandbag on a 4 SPD champion, especially sicne we are removing Resistance - Physical. Domain's buff here will mostly be useful for the DEF (since Tusk already has mobility). Is this intended to be a nerf?
Xulous seems balanced to me. Serkan seems a bit weak, and quite frankly toxic. Either he gets fed by things dying repeatedly, he is completely unable to be hit, or he is disabled with a 40 nora spell (take your pick). He also only really works well with cheap meat. Theoretically he SHOULD work well with liches, but they all cost so much, adding a 97 nora cost on top of it is alot. Him having dictate is nice, but he still seems like a very dynamic hero to say the least. People complain about moragen the lost, would removing zombie Apocalypse help?
forgot to mention, grimlic just seems like a better version of serkan, since both need to be deployed early to get an advantage regardless, grimlic is usually worth more for the cost 9/10.
Thanks for the notes, I like this part in particular. But yea, charges are slowly being phased out, so your idea might work. However, we have to be careful with Wellspring because unlike NKD, it protects everyone near her.
well since her creation her cost has increased, with the loss of heal champion 3, claw attack, reduction in range from 3-6 to 3-5 and a loss to her potential range of 8, a majority of it before you even came back. it might of been over a long time but she's been hit a lot for various reasons, and yes some were justified like movement to cost systems and redesigns and what not, but it does feel like people have had it out for her over the years while some heroes like mena seem to have remained largely the same.
This posts smacks of bias to me. ~ Juya's pre-revamp version was 125 nora under current costing but she was just 99 nora and she was 2-5 then, not 3-6, though it's possible she was 3-6 even before that one I suppose. Plus Keeneye Crown was +2 MAX RNG. And funny you mention Mena... He used to be 13 DMG 2-7 and 54 HP for 104 nora. He is now 11 DMG, 5-7 and 44 HP for 102 nora... and now has to choose between Heal and Nova.. how is that "remained largely the same?"
Thank you, glad it helps True, if its too cheap it might be a problem, the AP cost should be high like 8 or 9 so she needs to save two turns or gain ap with the other abilities or by comboing with invigorate or something else, she would be weak to Spd reduction and AP denial, or punish bgs which makes it more exciting than just building charges. another option is that the ability triggers for like 4 ap and then enters a cooldown but that limits too much imo how you play her and how often she enters the fight.
well the idea was a way to reduce azarens cost a bit. I reduced his def which he would then gain back from domain whil on the snow given to him by his pet, the pet would indeed lose physical -res, but then gain 1 def from being on the snow giving him a little more survivability from sources other then physical. it made them feel a bit more like a team as for my preference for terrain, when possible I like to design for alternate themes, to give a rune multiple uses, if he an tusk could find a place in a terrain deck then I'm happy to see him other theme's, but in this particular case I just was looking for an ability around the same cost as regen that could help get his cost down.
All the old Heroes were pretty insane back then, haha. Old Vindrax was Acid Breath on CD 2 with 16 DMG, 3 DEF and 62 HP. He's still pretty beefy, but at least Acid Breath is now CD3 and his base damage is 14 DMG. Oh, and he also had immunity - acid (whatever), Roar of the Fallen and Execute back then because he'd needed to be able to pwn you from range, melee and then hurt you even when you killed him.
I see. I feel like the Snow thing would be hard to work around given the SPD/Size of Tusk, but I'll consider it (it is thematic to the lore/art). I don't think they ahve a problem feeling like a team though. I could see the 1-4 to 3-4 thing more, it'd help with his cost a little bit, but his discount already accounts for his having 1-4 too.
My point was more that I don't think the changes were intended to be a "best effort" to make her unplayable.
