No, wait. I KNEW there was a reason I couldn't get it to work well. Goblin Bomb reads sacrifice REAL champion, so the summoned guys can't trigger it. Doh.
Ahh, sorry, my apologies. When newsbuff suggested them I just immediately assumed. Gobos could DEFINITELY do with there own Greenhouse then.
Yes, I remember now that I tried it with my first new BG post update only to find that it didn't work. It SEEMS ideally suited to that combo, so maybe it will get tweaked in a patch.
In general, sacrifice effects are typically restricted to real champions only because of the abuse angle. When they aren't restricted, they are much weaker because of the ability to sacrifice summons. If it was just changed to non-real without any tweaks, an Arroyo build, for example, could potentially abuse the rune quite significantly (riftlord could summons spirits at range and spend 40 nora to deal 20 fire damage total in AE5). So if this was reworked to be able to target summons, it might be something more along the lines of: <mechanic value=sacrifice>Sacrifice</mechanic> target champion you own. All champions within 5 spaces takes 5 Fire damage. If the sacrificed champion is a Goblin, enemy champions within 5 spaces takes 10 Fire damage instead. (Alternatively, it just targets Goblins only, real or otherwise.)
Personally my solution was different- simply make a new goblin rune along the lines of the kthir greenhouse (the one that creates sapplings). IDK though, maybe that isn't possible.
Thanks. That is an excellent option. Very happy with that. The alternative is ok too, but prefer the properly articulated version.
As for the thread topic, data-wise I am seeing quite a few newer UD runes showing up in usage, including but not limited to: some Naria (though they are likely not being ran in FF UD) Boundless Enthusiasm Goblin King Red-tipped Raptor Secret Meeting Goblin Cropsick Drain Vitality Fire Phoenix Bloodgoyle Nefari Shockbow Heretic Overlord Split Personality
You could make them profitably scale with a champions nora cost, which lets you circumvent the whole summons thing, and then allow those sac effects to compete with Sac and Retri for slots, while simultaneously furthering UD's "big expensive melee dudes" angle. Of course, finding stuff that scales well with nora can be tough.
I haven't had the chance to play with the new volth yet, but bunny is extremely powerfull even standalone with no beast synergy.
There are a lot of nice new runes in UD. The goblins are just great fun. The one thing lacking is a detection option. Still, for me, the lowly Pincushion remains king!
I like the demon route...always have...with and occasional spider or taurs vacation. Its not that I dont like imps or goblins but it requires more micro-managing. Its not my play style. But what I will say is that it feels we do get the short end of the stick. The reason being is we get a lot of restrictions around the cool stuff we get. Avarice being a goblin only equip is just stupid. Make it a demon equip already. The other thing is that the reason our old runes outclass the new runes is because they suck. There is no cool elaborate answer. They just are not on par with some of the other stuff. Soooo....retiring old runes would destroy any chance we currently have at being meta viable. Why not just make the new runes as good as the old ones or better but with new mechanics. I mean how many times have ST, KF, etc got new ranged champs. They have tons already. But the reason they are better is because they come with either new mechanics or something that gives them an edge on older runes without being OP. However I like that older runes still have a place. We dont always have to re-invent the wheel. Improve on what we already got. For example....the new voth is great. Great. It fills a similar role as the other voths while offering somthing different. While were on the topic its nice to see we arent plagued with the same stupid drawback of faithless on every voth.
The thing is, runes are made with the intention of being the same power level as old stuff - and generally, I think they are. But to be 'meta' they don't just have to be as good as old stuff, they have to be as good as the best of the old stuff. This would necessarily mean increasing the average strength of a meta deck - i.e. power creep.
The only runes run by most players there are boundless, split personality, and drain vit. Bloodgoyle thing looks good, but i personally dont run it. Other than that no good..ud is outclassed by other factions. Healing utility and matching ud damage with range. Anything decent ud has gets nerfed.
To be honest here is my take, The recent champs UD have been getting are not what the faction needs, my point is new champs for other factions get champs to complete themes like the king maker, a new lonx and new centaur etc. I give credit to the devs for bringing back certain themes but at the same time as a UD main player I cant help but feel cheated the naria runes are average at best in my opinion and dont serve a UD theme but more likely a split with KF, salaam is a solid rune but again it dont fit really into an existing theme (maybe UD beasts but that sinces kilstuforf no one has been playing that) spell wise I like the spells and I LOVED avarice when it came out but again they changed it to fit a theme that no one runs atm. I get it that some of you may think UD is good and their damage looks frightening in theory but please play the faction and realize how un-competitive they are atm. Lastly I just wanna say that the top players from each faction know what they are talking about and theoutcast is the current best UD player so before you criticize and disagree with him just know that he knows what he is talking about and has been here for 8+ years. Sorry for the long post
Preach brother! All these people like spieky and drake who don't even play UD as their main faction commenting on here too...so amusing.
I'm not an UD main and I agree with you that the naria runes seems out of place. But I can't help but to disagree with your take on themes. The fact that no one is playing a specific theme atm is precisely the reason for devs to invest in it. It was like that with salaman, jellebrium, spirits, etc. These themes were never played. Now they are really popular and solid with unique mechanics. Devs have been focusing more on developing themes rather than powercreep the meta of each faction and IMO that's why your perception of UD being left out. But see how many UD themes have been enabled lately: goblins, imps, bleed... Developing themes is what helps creating diversity and identity to the factions. Also agree that UD lack in utility compared to other factions and tbh I think that's intentional. While other factions can reach UD offensive capabilities, they need to work on it and spend quite a bit of Nora on it, while UD has massive dmg from the get go (Theoutcast bgs are really focused on that). So giving the same utility options to UD would create another imbalance to the game. Utility in UD has to come in small doses or with trade offs (like sacrifice for instance) or else it will always be OP. So while I can see why your complaining, I don't think it's in line with direction the devs have taken to the game.
I think you are one of the few who get what I am getting at, utility is hte main thing that makes UD unplayable sadly (say you get hammer striked u have one of two calls sac or retri ur unit). To the other point I accept that devs want to make less popular themes more playable but at the same time the new units for one reason or the other aint working. To put this into perspective last expansion I played UD for the first few weeks and changed to SL dragons (I lost alot of games with UD ) after drums of war finished I was 2nd place after the outcast. My point here being is that no one is playing UD consistently. Lastly I wanna say that you know I respect your input alot and can accept that I was wrong, but at the moment I honestly see UD suffering an injustice (whether intentional or not), and to the other posters here, we are here to debate and make the game better lets not turn the forums to a place where we insult each other and shut down suggestions.
I hope you didn't take my msg as an insult, I was just trying to put in another perspective. In regards to Hammerstrike, you know, you have dark pact or bane shift, these are much harder to use then a spot cleanse but are still an option. Coming from a FS background I know how it is not to have spot cleanse...
