IS font bonus

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by GabrielQ, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    there are several flaws in your statement. firstly you are comparing the IS font bonus to the ready condition running rampant on ST champs due to the arctic racial ability. snow and ice terrain can be generated or randomly found anywhere on the map while the IS font bonus is only generated if you are staying in your font.

    secondly you cant draw win a font bonus. you either cap a font or you dont. you either stay in a font or you dont. there is no "drawing" this bonus. you can build a deck around the bonus but that is a completely different aspect of the game design. and if you are staying in your font for the bonus it probably means you are on your heals trying to recover and are in defense mode, or you are playing on the small FW map.

    thirdly if a champ can abuse an extra unfair first turn "draw win" advantage from moving that extra space in certain scenarios then either the champ needs to be addressed or the map does. strictly speaking in FF mode i can only think of a few champs that falls into this category off the top of my head, dragon engine (11 spaces), barb elite (11), red fist (10), leoss druid (10), outrunner (9), boarder patrol (9), excavator (9).... and maybe 1 or 2 more im forgetting. however youll notice either these champs are terrain restricted or they use an ability that has some form of inherit extra cost to it. for the most part this list isnt going to get you a draw win unless your opponent had a crappy starting reveal. sure tempo will be in your favor but none of these champs will single handedly win you a game.

    and lastly the faction was originally designed around this bonus and with an over abundance of slower champs the faction has been forced to rely on it just to break even with the font capping aspect of the game. the need to recost or redesign most of the faction is an under taking i doubt the devs will have time to get to in anything even remotely resembling the near future. and since they originally designed the faction/font bonus i doubt they will want to alter anything that drastically.
    Radan likes this.
  2. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    I also think that IS font bonus is good, the other people complained.
  3. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    the faction bonus isnt horrific.... but remember all the best damaging spells ignore the faction bonus.... pygmy stampede, call of the tundra, poison cloud, raise dead with sac alter thingy.... basically every faction has something.... it only really affects the new and the forgetful. it acts as a good deterent but that only means they spend nora on something else.
  4. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    IS font bonus and arctic giving ready are dumb. You can't justify the drawwins/advantages by saying your bonus is bad. Change the damn bonus then. Fix what's broken and underpowered instead of claiming that somehow in a video game broken + bad = balance
  5. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    No problem with it being changed provided the faction bonus is changed and or buffed as it is now its pretty redundant.
  6. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    uhuh sure
  7. Radan

    Radan The King of Potatoes

    i donot think IS font bouns need to be change, if 6 dmg reduced by spells is an problem maybe spells should do more dmg, also i think all factions hav advangate and disadvangate in anyway u look at it
    If it do change then FW (deadmagic zone and 60%( i think) cooldown on champ), KF ( mostly hav 6 and 7 spd champs which bouns increase it by +1 spd), ST (+10HP, which most ST champs already hav high HP, dmg bouns and most champs gain 1 ap when on snow)
  8. jenovah2

    jenovah2 The King of Potatoes

    I think someone forgot to tell the excavator that information
    In terms of faction bonus....can this be completely negated by a spell or equipment or champion for IS? I am pretty certain that the bonus is intact regardless. Defense bonus of SL can be negated in many ways ...whether it be through spells, equipment, or a champion ability. Actually curious how this even came into being as a post
  9. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    Let me educate you. The IS faction bonus was designed to support the original theme and style of play of IS. That is the Phalanx, bunching champs up together to make each other stronger, hence why the faction bonus was put in place to stop us from being gibbed by AoE spam . For much of the early years that was IS's thing, slow early game requiring build up play and camping with nora miners till we were able to build up an unstoppable phalanx and smash face.

    The early runes for this were the Dwarven King ( War Cry turns ) , Barbarian Commander with Battlemaster, Armorer for Defender and Enhance Armor, Dwarven Catapult for some flying goodness, etc etc you get the picture.

    During this era the faction bonus was good , it allowed us to stay alive long enough to get moving. Ironically the font bonus was near redundant back than as all we ever did was camp ( at least up until Barbs became a viable rush theme with the original Savage) .

    However over the years people complained and got pissy about Phalanx play and thus Bombs and Cones and other AoE abilities were introduced as well as things that by pass defence ( Strike, Magic Bomb , Auras etc etc ) and completely destroyed the Phalanx style . Not to mention the sudden burst of spells that pretty much made our faction bonus redundant, see Maddening Echos, Borghas, Gale Force etc.

    Nowadays there aren't even that many AoE's ( again due to much crying by the community over the years ), really Ice Storm, and KF's plethora of AoEs are the only ones I see nowadays to the point that our faction bonus is not in use in about 90% of the games we play. I am sure you can see how this is a little shitty towards us considering every single others faction bonus plays a constant role in 100% of their games.

    So really IS has become dependant now on that extra 1ap font bonus, it allows us to catch a font a turn early and have some hope of surviving the inevitable rush.

    Ironically because our Phalanx play was taken away and our faction bonus was not compensated, the greens were forced to give us runes like Excavator and Tales of Valor so that we can compete, all our top runes are exponentially high costing. Originally this was due to Nora Miners being hella OP but now due to the several nerfs they got and nora counters they are unplayable, and many of our original runes are suffering with excessively high nora costs as a a result of this.

    There are a lot of balances and patches and changes that the greens will have to role out before the factions see balance. I would invite you to play IS for a couple weeks and then tell me how useful our faction bonus is.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  10. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    your faction bonus of 20% less damage cant be countered except by spells and lol. our font bonus can be countered by rebuke/wicked aura/magnetic pulse(especially with a neg equip)/etc.

    your font bonus synergizes well with your improved toughness to keep you alive longer. our faction bonus synergizes with nothing and is so easy to get around its ridiculous.

    the excavator isn't even the worst font rushing offender.... he is just the most efficiently costed. that's not to say the offenders shouldn't be looked at but more that the font bonus plays a smaller role in the abuse but is a more visible aspect of the problem. im not beyond hope that a balanced middle ground can be found but just randomly breaking a bonus because it is symptomatic of a problem wont solve anything. a comprehensive rebalance is needed first.
  11. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    zealotry everywhere
    jenovah2 likes this.
  12. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    A Poxnora player without zealotry is either a split deck player or a ginger.
    sassquatch likes this.
  13. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    I'm not ginger, ask your wife
    Dagda likes this.
  14. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    IS has a bonus that is pretty much useless as an incentive to play Ironfist stronghold. FW making thier 70 nora champions cooldown 4 and Sp receiving nora for the deployment and death of thier champions is much more stronger. IS has always been handicapped in terms of what I call "designers mercy" IS has moved from expansion to expansion basically at the mercy of powercreep that the designers have bestowed on them.

    From Carouse, IS powerlevel has pretty much stayed consistent Cannot compete at all levels, only Specific theme is "in the running" at the moment due to the development of defensive skirmish synergy this has made the grintmaw theme perhaps one of IS'es strongest themes due to the fact that they can actually survive a round against those mirefolk themes. Paladins are second strongest mostly due to Angel late game ranged supremacy and a tanky theme that was given attrition abilities designed to make X champion lose health and Paladins healing constantly.

    Now everyone wants Tales of Valor and tactical manual nerfed, noticing the pattern of IS development.

    Even our runes are nerfed in ways that directly effect our champions rather than some OP split combo.
    jayscales1 likes this.
  15. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Iajab with true wisdom like usual
  16. Ballballer

    Ballballer Chief Antagonist

    If the font bonus is changed I would prefer it to not be the anti relic one. As it is, if I want to contest a side font against IS, I pretty much have to deploy a relic or I'm going to just get blinked and never see the champ again. Without the ability to deploy a relic, contesting a side font would be much much much harder.
  17. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    Except, if you're going to contest with a relic, you need a champion to deploy it there. What's to stop me from Blinking your champion and killing the relic?
  18. Ballballer

    Ballballer Chief Antagonist

    the fact that you couldn't do both and still cover the blink spot?
  19. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    What a well thought out post.
    Anotherblackman likes this.
  20. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    If I was naive I would bother writing up a well thought out post about how IS/ST font bonus is terrible from a balance standpoint, but reading the logic that you guys preaching here, I'll save myself the time

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