For the sake of the argument, what answers do you think are good or excellent options for IS to utilize against FW? Which IS runes do FW players see and wonder how they are going to counter it?
Overall, sustain and scaling. Bastion with Battle Leader can be pretty terrifying, he is rushy, hard to one round and he grants benefits from dealing with meat and summons. I'm not sure how people do it but I've seen him with Shielded in the past too and that made him extra hard to deal with. Zedin is pretty much always a pain to deal with Crusader/AOP or pretty much anything that can generate hallowed ground As Markoth said Grints as a theme work well because they counter attrition and scale up quite well. A full Paladin bg would be equally if not more problematic, they counter zombies in particular quite well. Blink and that other one which moves a champ to the nearest DZ and applies awestruck are obviously good for countering Doom. Medal of Valor, spot Battle Leader can rally screw over stuff like worms in a huge way.
Aye you know fw late game is stronger than IS right? K now with that in mind, how does one as IS effectively sustain when fw can essence drain and one round anything after its done while in the 25 HP range for most cases that's what units might have in early game vs fw(I know it is for that bogus crusader bs) Then there is Doom and how most of the time if that tune is even used they have some sort of death benefit legacy. But that's the deal you have to save your own units in IS. You either draw what you need in time of divinity touch or blink or you don't on which the enemy just full on snowballs with a 25 damage serkan, plenty of boosts for undead, skeletons like death cupid are created into tanks I just like how powerful that xulos is tbh I mean you blink or divine touch him and he's Firking your whole army for 9 damage which is alot globally, he drains your champions for they hp and he just siphons the nearest skeleton and messy shields when IS isn't known for ability combat anymore. IS has powerful patience but with stuff like soulreave, steal life which makes it hell to play them, domination which makes anything you are planning a suicide on most maps or you group and my favorite, mobilization which unless the IS player is using refute and is psychic he will get slammed late game leaving you with a especially bad taste in your mouth from a hour long game that felt more like pulling teeth without Novocaine than a classical board game I used to love. Btw the way holy Mace tactics would work: I just put on a tank and have them focus everything on that one tank(usually would draw a doom or something) and a meh ranged unit would have it if it was directly in the fray because it was just effective. Craft would allow for some cooldowns and plays. TlDr: this is poxnora for IS haha
As long as you think like this then there is nothing to be gained here. IS is one of the best if not the best faction in terms of scaling, the existence of Medal of Valor alone is enough to provide efficient scaling to any IS bg. FW bgs might always play well into the late game but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be able to outscale other factions in every situation. You need to stop focusing on the negative aspects of the game so that you can open yourself up to the positive kind of thinking that will help you find solutions. I understand that the overwhelming amount of bullshit that is contained within this tiny game can easily get you down but if you watch players like Markoth, Axe or Alkaline then you will see that even IS scum can overcome it.
I disagree with what a lot of what he's saying however, when your giving options like well just divinity's touch your own unit to counter doom I find it hard to disagree with him. Doom is a very overpowered spell, and even if he saves his unit your doom will be ready before his touch is again. I've been playing skellys a lot lately and they scale quick and that's without me using rite of power shenanigans. Then again with @Anotherblackman being a long time vet he should know fw has always been easy mode, hence the overwhelming number of players that use it and new players that pick it up. I was talking recently with someone, can't remember who right now but they agreed that fw doesn't really have a top player I look at and go well that guys pretty damn good. Simply because a lof of top fw players can't play a lick in any other faction in the game and that's partially because of how fw plays with all the insta kill shenanigans. Him saying their is no way to beat skellys though is a bit over the top.
Anyone else see this simply as an opportunity to rework Holy Mace? After the nerfs (and since Hunters are no longer going to stack), it's the perfect time to breath some new life into an old shoebox rune. I'd say something like this would suit: - 30 nora - new effect: "Equipped champion gains Hunter: Unholy and Impact Strike. If equipped on a Paladin, it also gains Consecration and you are refunded 10 nora." It's somewhat situational, but this way it keeps the original intention of the rune without making it a dud vs. non-FW/UD, and gives something extra for Paladins. Impact Strike could also be switched to Stunning Sweep, or Swordbreaker, or Slam, or something else "macey".
Loadstone should have a sacrifice button where he explodes and all your own champions on the board are equiped with Holy Maces... cuz, why not.
A little late yes, but seriously, what are you running for IS (if you haven't changed it, or if you did change it and you still feel the same way)? Knowing what you're running would help a lot in regards to advice (we like pretty pictures). If you can post the entire bg/s from Poxbase, that would be good. The things that immediately come to mind are that FW tends to hate mobile champs. It has plenty of ways to stop or punish you for being mobile, but if you can get some spot cleanse (which IS has a firk ton of) on a mobile champ, try contesting as many fonts as you can. FW relies a surprising amount on engaging with the right champions, so if you can negate that to get to their important ones or to contest, that's obviously good. I feel that FW also doesn't have as strong or as many ways to get rid of Relics. It's primary way of dealing with relics is Desecration, but you'll rarely see any of the other ones. Warding is also hugely important against FW, as they rely heavily on single target spells. If you're playing Dwarves, and struggle a lot against Skele's or Zombies, I would consider Dwarven Beermaiden and giving her Shatter Summoned. Macadamize is great against pretty much anything, including FW as it will give Mobility while on Rock. Add Rock Generator if you reeeeeaaally want to. Any area-denial spell's, abilities, or relics are generally good against summon battlegroups, as they tend to be slow or rely on swarming. (Open the Earth, Earthquake (woot!), Stasis Field, Stronghold, Rock Torrent, Salt/Earthshaker, Guard Tower, Hahndor Memorial (mainly spell hate), Living Diamond, Northern Cross Obelisk (contesting bulls**t). I don't remember if you can target opposing champs with it, but if you can, Unbending Force is essentially IS's Doom. Make sure to have at least one Refute (one of the best counter-spells in the game imo). Suppress if you're really having trouble with super champs or important ability champs. Wings of Glory is auto-include if you're playing Wings. Rallying Flag is good for Font and Shrine defense against rushing (you're holding the line and scaling I hope). If you REALLY want to go for spell hate, use Spell Ward. tl;dr: Mobility, Cleanse, Warding, Area-Denial. IS is my least played faction, but from what others have said, and my limited experience with IS, this what I think would help against FW in a pinch (If the profile pic didn't give it away, I play FW mostly).
Maybe just have it reset it instead? Or else ANOTHER price increase on Blink (pls no). Though, to be fair, Doom really should be more like 60 Nora imo. The closest thing to it is Drown, which is 80 Nora (though to be fair, despite its restrictions on use, it is instant as opposed to delayed).
Redeploy effects historically reset the champ to just deployed status, so it should be a valid counter for doom.
Lol blink is 10 more nora then doom, which means it also has a longer cd. I tried these "doom counters", I blow 50 nora on divinitys touch on my dudes last turn of life and the very next turn the same champ gets doomed again...
fw or lose, been this way for years. Their is a reason the skill lvl for most fw players is so low, their is also a reason why they don't try other factions.
I'd be down for it doing that, as well as resetting basically everything else on the champ (Intensify being an example). Of course, I've always thought of Blink as really just being THE redeploy spell. So that would make sense to me. On the other hand, if it were to remove effects added to it after its original deployment (like Doom, Poisoned, etc.) and then reset initial deployment effects (like Intensify, or Escalation as examples), that would probably make most people happiest. What say you (and others I suppose)?
If you don't play FW, just add a little salt to the game and it'll taste fine. I had an interesting start into Pox, my brother gave me his Stitched and I was hooked. After that, I delved more into FW (I like pretty much all of their themes, though back then FW's strategies were much too easy to execute, now it feels more like the strategic combo faction it was meant to be, but that's my opinion). I also then went heavily into SP, love me some Clops. And then Froglar Snappies. Then Fairies. So... I guess I'm not most FW players. Then again, whenever I look to see who's playing, I rarely see FW being played, so I don't have much to work with. Then again, whenever I see who's playing, it's invariably KF, SL, ST, and UD. I guess it's just my timing.
