IS Meta Deck

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by Markoth, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It's not ok with me. I hate when people tell me a theme/rune is nerfed to the ground/gutted/etc. because that's NEVER my intent. I am generally light on nerfs, IMO, but it doesn't seem to matter.

    In this case, the nerfs were incremental. With Violent removed from ranged being the very last thing, and there were stil widespread complaints about Dwarves at that point. Then, that happened, and now people don't play it, and it's "average."

    I really don't understand why the divide between average and OP is like a giant cliff, and wish more things could land in the "good" range.
  2. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    I understand your frustration, and as a player it is equally frustrating. Lets take it back a bit. Before the introduction of the Beermaiden, dwarves were not a theme. It just so happened there were quite a few dwarves that happened to be good, but there was no real synergy , Carouse was laughable. Now IS has always been a popular faction player wise, this is due in part to the fact that we always had a very strong forum community that was always helpful to new players etc.

    Now the Beermaiden gets introduced and suddenly the whole theme is brought together via this one rune. On the House is bringing in the drunk synergy, bringing Hooligans back into BGs, and providing damage to a subpar ranged theme(though the Pontiff of Alamara is fantastic). And all of a sudden all the IS players switch to Dwarves. With a small playerbase basically what is played most generally gets nerf calls for being OP as people get tired of facing the same thing a lot and want it nerfed. At this point I think the theme was fine, strong but not OP.

    Now Maeck was introduced and everything went a little nuts. Maeck should have never had Keg Toss. Regal Presence in Dwarves was never going to sit well, but its the playstyle it promoted that was problem, sitting back camping behind Maeck and sniping with range and getting Violent boosts. If anything came close Maeck had Majestic to shut it down and in combination with Keg Toss his damage boost just got crazy.

    Now all this had digressed into something definitely over the power curve. Now nerfing Keg Toss was the silly move, I know it was discussed at length and in terms of cost and effect vrs other bombs it did a lot. But it was a Theme Enabler. Now you nerfed Keg Toss, crippled Maeck and took away the Brew boost to range dwarfs. Now what is theme left with ? No synergy outside basic boosts via commander/defender etc. Carouse is not a racial, and dwarves are bland and boring again its not that they aren't good, they are as I've said, but taking away everything that gave the theme some sort of identity and cohesion has just left it with a mish mash of good champs and no real reason to run a full dwarf BG anymore. Drunkenness was a fantastic way to make Dwarves a theme and probably the most flavorful one at that, but you cant nerf the 3 centrepiece runes to a theme (Hooligan,Beermaiden,Maeck) repeatedly and expect it to keep its identity.
    Iskandak likes this.
  3. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    I think we can all agree dwarven ever was a theme.
    When the beermaiden came out the drunken theme took a breath of life. Then caruse change to affect every dwarf instead of only the brutes, give the big bonus to every dwarf and the brutes.

    Anyway i don't see why regal presance is removed from Maeck. Like i don't completly understand the change on St. Semmirs (now even the 1-2 rng don't take violance, that's silly imo, i agree that violent rng is something very strong.).

    For the rest i find axe explained what i lost in the months i was away from pox.

    What to say, #honesltysok? [<- LOOK A JOKE!]
  4. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    God damn right. it bothers me
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I feel like if Beermaiden was introduced today instead, people would be playing Dwarves all over the place and some would be calling it OP. But can't really prove that other than the fact that when it was introduced, before Maeck, Dwarves immediately started being called OP.

    This is the kind of stuff that baffles me and why I don't understand player reactions. How did a theme go from being OP'd and fun and everyone is playing it to bland and boring because of some power level adjustments?

    If the idea is that the changes destroyed all synergy and cohension, then I am utterly confused.

    Because the sum "synergy" I see nerfed with the changes was:
    • Regal Presence (which Dwarves still have access to)
    • Violent removed from St. Semmir's for ranged Dwarves (but it's not like Carouse or Brews in general is useless on ranged champs)
    • Keg Toss retains all the theme synergies, but did lose the Knockback aspect (which is just a mechanic, not theme synergy)
    Can you explain what exactly happened to the "synergy" they had before the nerfs? And how the changes made them basically have no synergy and no racial now? I really don't follow this line of reasoning.


    Also, when you say Maeck is crippled, do you mean he's a bad rune now?
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  6. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    It's all a trick to make Maeck become a pally
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    You don't know how hard I tried to make him not a Pally. When I came back to Pox and found that IS was getting another LEG Paladin, I was like. NOOOOOO.
  8. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    Now, the time is came. Now the stars are aligned. The third moon is rising. And Maeck starts his journey to bacame....A PALADIN!

    pls sok

    Edit: you ask if he's a bad champ, well if he's a pally no, but now is just meh, ya know ​
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

  10. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    Anyways I made a thread about this a while ago whining about it. So here's my thoughts.
    I wouldnt call dwarves a theme but call it Drunken theme instead.

    I think the major problems were St Semmirs and Keg Toss.
    St Semmirs with fury was hilarious, but with violent it was still very strong on ranged champs. with that fixed its fine imo (may be still very strong)
    Keg Toss was different from all oter bombs and got fixed, but I think it would have been fixed if it just was on the attack chain, all other removals are kind of overkill, but that might be me.

    What got hit in the nuts: Carouse. Sure it costs less and can be used on enemies. But I would have been way happier with once every turn and not usable on enemies.
    This is also what makes beermaiden overly costly at over 70 nora atm.

    And would it be that bad to give Maeck Regal Presence back?
  11. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    I agree with the keg toss part, and with the caruse too.

    Maeck now isn't just a support who hit like a truck, he just hit like a truck. He cost 83 nora, with a bomb, or 76 with charge 3, and look at his stat. I honeslty prefer him with loyalty, if you want regal presance there is dwarven halder (and here please, regal presance, an ability who inspire the other to be him? really? he has nothing regal) I agree that would be more flavour but at this point just make Maeck a paladin. He shouts "I'm a paladin, sokpls". Like the axeman :p
  12. skarpox

    skarpox The King of Potatoes

    I can tell you why. The goal of most people is to win in ranked, which is why meta is almost always the best theme. If it is not rankable, it is not playable.
  13. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    "Semmiran noble" screams regal presence. Yet he has drunk flavored abilities. In a perfect world you could change the name an pic for the abilities and make semmiran noble a paladin with regal presence.
    But a paladin with his current abilities wouldnt cut it for me :p

    Imo sargeant should have regal presence. Handler could have something else.

    And pls remove the +health from regal presence :p as it was removed from aoe boost I could see this as well (my units keep dying because I move out of range makes me feel ********(mind you, I only use this on voil atm))
    If it means changing loyalty so be it :D
  14. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

  15. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    I didn't say he should not have regal presance, i said that he don't need it back.
    And i see no reason why he should not be a pally, he's a dwarf, and he drinks. Like any other dwarf.
  16. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    True. But I split dwarves into drunk and other. Paladins arent considered drunks in my book.
    BUT! Lemme say but :p st semmir's brew feels like a paladin(ish) brew so it makes sort of sense. Still I'd split them if I was behind the screens.
    However, dwarves are best, dwarves can do all, so pls just give them every buff there is.
  17. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    I will cancel this post from my mind.
    Iskandak likes this.
  18. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

  19. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    I still occasionally play drunken dwarves and include the S Noble but I don't expect to do well verse most "meta" minded opponents. The theme is fun for a flavor perspective for me not a im gonna crush my opponents and bathe in their tears perspective.
  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Thanks for the responses :)

    "He used to provide buffs to a theme and fill a support/tank role. Sure he is still tanky but he doesn't provide anything valuable as a package that isn't done better now by something else."

    I find this extremely awkward as he has TWO unique abilities that work in the theme. Are they both so bad/overcosted that Maeck doesn't provide anything valuable?

    Also, based on everything you said, it sounds like if he had Regal Presence, he suddenly become awesome again? Or what if we just dropped Dwarven Noble or Drunken Revel and replaced it with Regal Presence since those abilities apparently provide nothing valuable? (And then, also, miraculously Dwarves would have synergy again because of one ability that just buffs stats?)
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015

Share This Page