Isn't it amusing that the only way to pass a healthcare bill in the US is to make it strictly worse?

That is about as logical as coming to the conclusion that the cause of the sun rising is a rooster's crow, because when roosters crow the sun is rising. Just because people pay taxes to a gov't. doesn't mean the gov't is socialist. Rome was a republic it's citizens were taxed by Caesar they weren't socialist. The ancient Greeks were taxed during times of war they weren't socialist they were a Democracy. To be a true socialist model of a gov't some important things need to happen. 1. The monetary supply must be nationalized, 2. the resources must be nationalized, 3. public property must be abolished. As far as I know our source of monetary supply (The Federal Reserve) is owned by 12 private banks internally but on the outside it looks to be governed by a federal agency. Our monetary supply is privatized and is used to make profit at the citizens expense. Our resources are not owned by the gov't but owned by powerful corporations. Private property is still a principle in america. People can buy land. It is true Abraham Lincoln forced Henry Clay's American System of building infrastructure onto america after illegally starting a civil war. By implementing principles like Protectionism, Mercantilism, and selective tariffs Lincoln evolved a representative republic free trade system into a crony capitalist model. As a result of Lincoln's actions gov't created monopolies putting powerful families in charge of resources (Rockefellers(oil), Dupont's(dynamite), Carnegie(steel), Vanderbilt(railroads), Morgan(banking/gold). NO America is not a socialist country you are wrong. America is very much a crony capitalistic model bordering on a plutocracy. The corporations that govern the military industrial complex have been creating their own wars to profit off of american tax dollars since the end of world war 2. Here are the names that have influenced our foreign policy decisions from then to now (1.Lockheed Martin, 2. Boeing, 3.BAE Systems, 4. General Dynamics, 5. Raytheon, 6. Northrop Grumman 7. EADS, 8.Finmeccanica, 9. L-3 Communications, 10. United Technologies.) <---- You want to know where all the funding for your precious health care system went it is in these asshles pockets and they spent all your money on fake fckng wars like Vietnam, both Iraq wars, and Afghanistan. Furthermore these companies control the narrative of alot of media outlets.

 

fwiw, my condition was originally dismissed as a pre-existing one (more because there's no easy way to prove otherwise than anything else). and that's with government issue BCBS, which is one of the better providers from what pretty much all of my various doctors have said


my family wouldn't be bankrupt if we had to take the full burden of the expenses caused by my condition, which would start with over a hundred visits to hospitals, ERs, testing facilities (blood/x-ray stuff) and doctors, about a dozen lumbar punctures (depending on how you count them), various medications, an initial brain surgery, a followup brain surgery to fix the first one failing, and a followup to that to get some nerve branches disentangled from the scarring

which isn't counting my dad leaving the workforce to take care of me, or the subsequent visits to my various doctors in the last few years (thankfully, fewer visits and calmer years). it isn't counting the stress it would've added to my family, it isn't counting the added debt my sister would have to take on to get through undergrad at UMD because my parents wouldn't have been able to pay for as much of it


they wouldn't be bankrupt, but their retirement would be in jeopardy. my sister would be yet another millenial crushed by debt. i... i don't know what the Firk i'd be.

i can't really think of a good ending here. something about i understand we all have our differences, but honest to god i don't understand someone that would wish more stress on an already ****ed up situation


and to stress this, i live in one of the more populated parts of the country with some Firking fantastic doctors, a variety of good hospitals, and a family with enough money to pull through if they had to (money that they earned pretty much all by themselves, not anyone in my family i can think of born rich).

if any of those things weren't true (honestly, if just the doctors thing wasn't true), i (and most of my family) would be in a much more ****ed up place today.

 

I don't have a problem with implementing a universal health care program. I am not in charge of this country. Big pharma and insurance agencies run the show so even if we implemented it they would be manipulating the system to milk the country and it's citizens for profit. I was ok with the affordable care act at first until I started to read the entire bill and realizing that the healthcare program needed a lot of changes before being passed. How is universal healthcare good if you have to pay 1000's of dollars in deductibles just to use it? Premiums will rise 25% as well. Hillary care would have been even worse the program would have required massive tax increases and price controls on doctors services, MRI machines, and prescription drugs. A bunch of new worthless gov't. agencies would have been created as well resulting in a more bloated gov't. Do you know what happens when you put price controls on something? The companies quit or go out of business causing shortages in the economy, and as a result economic catastrophe. Go shove your socialistic price controls, central planning, and commy rage up your ass.

 

How come many countries have pulled off universal or goverment healthcare?

also answer the question I asked before chicken.

 

Alot of countries don't have the same obstacles the US has when it comes to getting any kind of legislation through congress.

 

So you decided to become the mirror universe version of Ragic?

 

So I decided to stop negotiating with intellectual terrorists.

Pretending utter lunacy should be dignified with a response is why Ragic in his current form exists in the first place.

 

Ergo

You cant have nice things and shouldnt try to get them? Makes sense.

 

The majority of these rants by non-Americans comes from jealousy, imo. In 200 years, hardly a blip on the radar compared to the other countries in this world, America completely surpassed every other existing nation's welfare, prosperity, technology, and virtually everything else. Greece was once an empire, HA, they can't even pay their electric bill without England, Spain, and Germany paying their bills for them. So why would we expect these left wing, have my government do everything for me pansies talk any other way? It's whats been programmed into their minds that they HAVE to have the government do things for them. Need your butt wiped? No problem, Putin will do it for you. It's why most of them have a 30% + unemployment rate and why when the anti-christ does enter the scene that they easily fall prey to his whims. Also, its why a TON of them are HERE. Say what you want to about Americans. Were keeping most of you up anyways. You're just made that Hilary isn't there to give you more than what your getting. But Queen Elizabeth said it best herself when talking about the fail that socialism is, "Eventually you run out of other people's money." Couldn't have said it better.

 

bondman007 with the comedy.

Dutch unemployment rate is 5,4 compared to the american 4,7%

also looks like living in the Netherlands is better.
https://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/NL/US
living in germany is better aswell.
https://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/DE/US

want me to check every country? sure most will make less money but at the same time people will have the security of not having their life and their entire families life ruined by circumstances beyond their control and less likely to be murdered which is the entire point of a civilization in the first place. giving up a small part so everyone can live in comfort not just the lucky. and also more free time, almost as much free time more as there is money less.

it's what Jesus would have wanted and frankly for a bunch of religious nutcases you are all very unchristianlike.

 

greece is a pretty poor example of a fall from grace. you might as well say "well where is macedon now?"

every empire falls


also, for someone talking about political programming you seem pretty much blind to your own

 

they make fake news clickbait and share it on facebook for ad revenue, pro-trump anti-left stuff gets shared more so they make more of that since it gives them more revenue.

and some, I assume, are nice people.

 

"where is assyria now"

 

Babylon called, they want-


Oh wait

 

I mean, then tell me what do you view as socialist? You linked a bunch of pictures which basically say socialism is giving from one guy to another (wealth redistribution), or which say socialism is getting something for no work. America already spends more on welfare per person than any EU country except Norway. Your pictures which you just linked there and left say nothing about what you talk next.

1. Monetary supply being nationalized. Money is issued by banks and fiinancial institutions nowadays in most, if not all, countries. Said institutions are not owned by the government.

2. Resources must be nationalized. Again, today most things are privately owned or being privatized. I actually come from a country where the government owned most companies pre 1991. Today everything is being sold out. The result usually being massive layoffs, possible shutdowns and massive profits in the pockets of a few. While this is going on the American foreign minister here constantly says ''you did good, but you need to privatise more''. It's always privatise, privatise, privatise. Sell everything to german and american billionaries.

3. Private property is still a thing everywhere in the world. Of course you can buy land, however it is becoming increasingly costly to do so.

All these things are not mutually exclusive with public healthcare or public schools. Unlike communism, socialism is not mutually exclusive with capitalism. But unlike both socialism really doesn't have a clear definition. Which seems to be where most issues lie. Personally I view socialism as when a country and all it's people work towards a better country for the people living in said country. Which imo is pretty much the only way to run a country. Otherwise what's the point of taxes or even having a country? You can call me a Na zi (why is this censored?) if you wish.

As for the rest, I understand what you are saying. Powerful private and corporate interests decide what's going on. That's true and of course they would want to fleece the populace for everything they can, and not give anything in return. However it seemed to me you were against a nationalized healthcare system out of principle. Not because you think there are no resources, or the resources are actively being spent on the whim of corporate interests for corporate interests. Atleast that's how I understood your first posts. The problem isn't government healthcare. But the dictatorship of capital and corporations over the whole world.

You legit have no idea about what you are talking about. The only reason your country hasn't collapsed yet is because of your ability to completely destroy another country if they don't go along with whatever you say. Your country is basically a mercenary for hire for the elites to do whatever they please and enrich themselves beyond belief. Keeping most of you up? You are destroying the whole world. And yet you are completely brainwashed into believing you are ''the good guys''. I watched that documentary Star wars the other day. It was about american rebels fighting the evil empire. Good stuff. The only country which adopts an obvious critique like Born in the USA as some kind of a pseudo anthem. And besides, your country is much more indebted than Greece ever was. It's just that nobody will collect that debt. It's only a matter of time till more and more countries try to ditch the dollar.

The antichrist bit is also rich. Your country is by far the most evil in this world. Destroying countless countries and people just so a few can get rich. Good christians right? Your president swears upon the Bible when he is elected and yet bombs a christian country illegally to establish the first muslim state in Europe. Just btw the state is a complete failure, with corruption running rampant, drug cartels taking hold of the country with the only money flowing in from Saudi Arabia who builds mosques and tries to radicalize the youth. A lot of people tried to escape to Germany during the last immigrant wave. You ruined art in 80 years and export nothing but Bane Shift and propaganda through hollywood. You complain about muh liberals without realizing that the main cultivator and exporter of these destructive ideologies are USA universities. You complain about socialism while your government gives billions of dollars of free money to Israel every year. Well played. Meanwhile Israel sells your secrets to the chinese and is the only country to have launched a direct attack upon you since WW2 Japan. Of course you can't have government healthcare. You are paying for Israels healthcare! It all makes sense now.

Spoken like a true american. Completely ignorant and just plain dumb. No surprises though. Your country was founded by religious zealots and criminals (aka the dregs of europe) and a few aristocrats looking for easy money. It was made on blood and it is only a matter of time till it sinks in blood. 200 years is not a lot of time.

 

They think they were founded by people looking for religious freedom*
*the religious freedom to discriminate and infringe on other peoples freedom of religion.

 

I still love how ignorant muricans try to claim that the average american has it better than the average X.

Look up a human development index sometime.

Firk it, here it is



Not too bad right? Best country on earth, only shared 10th place! Murica!

Oh wait

"The IHDI combines a country’s average achievements in health, education and income with how those achievements are distributed among country’s population by “discounting” each dimension’s average value according to its level of inequality. Thus, the IHDI is distribution-sensitive average level of HD. Two countries with different distributions of achievements can have the same average HDI value. Under perfect equality the IHDI is equal to the HDI, but falls below the HDI when inequality rises.

The difference between the IHDI and HDI is the human development cost of inequality, also termed – the loss to human development due to inequality. The IHDI allows a direct link to inequalities in dimensions, it can inform policies towards inequality reduction, and leads to better understanding of inequalities across population and their contribution to the overall human development cost."



Only 19th. Land of opportunity. Wave your flag some more about how you're the best country on Earth.

 

Brother, Greece is just one fine example of how incredibly fail the "Euro alliance" is. Britain can't even get out of it even though its people voted to. Freedom?

 

Sure thing

By that logic, the whole of America is a fail, because Kansas and Detroit are basically crack infested places with a sprinkle of people living in there. Sure a long fall from grace for you, the greatest union ever

edit, oh and, as other have mentioned, just because it's still called greece after 2000+ years, lolled

the point you're trying to bring up is a joke, statistics don't lie

 

I respect each of you guys opinions. However, you make me laugh when you dog America, and that's cool. America represents many cultures and beliefs many of which are from YOUR countries. It was paid in blood and we are thankful for that. Again, another thing that makes our nation great.

Healthcare is a mess in America, gentlemen, I won't disagree. But where it all failed and went straight to crap is when? You guessed it, the left wing liberals got involved and screwed it up. Ever since then; higher healthcare costs, penalties if you don't have healthcare, and "free" healthcare for those who can't afford it. Nothing mind you is ever free.

As far as socialism, you folks crack me up. You guys always talk about billionaire Americans buying an ruining everything. Who the heck do you think runs every single government on this planet? Do you think its poor people? Rich people have owned and killed the poor and weaker people since the dawn of time. Your billionaires control you now. If it hadn't been for the wealthy bankers supporting Hitler, Germany would have rotted away. Get your head out of your arses.

In a college class in America, a teacher was on the subject of governments. After studying most major types in the world, the professor asked the class which they liked the best. Of them all, the class decided they liked socialism better than any other. So, he asked them, why. Most responded with, well, everyone gets a fair shake. No one left out. So, he asked them if they would like to run the class in a socialist way. They excitedly said yes. On the first test, he told the class that everyone made a B-. Of course some were ecstatic and others were dismayed. On the second test, he announced everyone made a C. By the end of the class the grades were D's and F's. Socialists depend on the few to carry everyone else. And eventually, the few give up.

The entire Euro alliance right now is an example of that! Germany, Spain, and England carrying all the others. England is already tired of it...how long until Germany says forget it and decides to go Na zi again?