read my edit on the post you quoted and let me know your thoughs too I like lashers mainly for their price tag + range. Drive can be very good especially paired with Unleash (on the slipped), Quicken and Pack Mentality. On top of this, right now Kanan benefit very highly on being in mele range to get off swarms and pack mentality combos. Dragging attack can make this much easier to accomplish. Another reason why I run Harpoon on top of 2x lashers. I use to even run my Angel of Chaos also in my kanen deck for that very same reason.... and probably still could Also you should consider the fruit combo. There is no better BG for the fruit than Kanen
I've addressed your edit in my edit of the last post and agree with it. Regarding the lashers, I see where you're coming from, and hadn't actually noticed drive before. I think drive is a great ability. Maybe I'm just simple but with things like dragging attack and vicious harpoon I find myself taking too long to calculate what how the closed distance is going to affect my combo following up, and ultimately instead of it being a boon I just end up wasting my turn away doing calculations. I think this is a problem linked to the way I like to play the game though, and as such can definitely be a lot more useful in another person's hands. Finally, I used to run forbidden fruit, but, and please correct me if I'm mistaken here, I believe the pack mentality attack from the little Kanen do not count as a basic attack, and as such do not trigger the FF mechanism.
From my experience the FF mechanic works with mentality attacks, but I haven't tried it since the revamp. If it has been changed since then I wouldn't know, but I use to use it religiously. \ And yeah harpoon/drag attack power turns can be tedious, and really mastery comes with practice. As a dedicated SP player I use pull all the freaking time. My main SP BG has two harpoons and an Angel of Chaos. It really is just something you have to get used to, but it can be monumentally important if you get good with it. In any case, I think lashers are a perfect utility champ for the theme.
Maybe one day I can start adapting to pull mechanics. In related news, just had a match-up against a top 50 guy running the typical UD meta against my Kanen BG posted above. MATCH REPORT: MAP: 2 font ST (Lake in the middle) 1st turn: He gets first draw and deploys 1 Redcap Twin aggressively, to contest my font capture in the bottom font. I deploy a Kanen Slipped to confront the twin on my own font (manic is going to screw over a 2nd turn capture of my font). No other champ drawn so I leave it at that. 2nd turn: Naturally, he deploys the second Redcap Twin to capture his own font and moves the first twin down towards my font. This is where I think I made the game winning decision. I wasn't going to bother contesting his font up top and double deployed 1 Howler and 1 Mongrel next to my Slipped . I unleashed the Slipped with the Mongrel reinforcement AP and he zipped up to the font(but failed to capture due to the nature of manic). 3rd turn: Memory is a little hazy here but it's something like this - Redcap Twin wisely decides not to charge into the font to contest but maintains distance. 2nd Redcap has captured his own font and is going back to the shrine to loop around to back her twin up (mistake #1 imo, he should've gone down to my shrine I think). I move my Howler and Mongrel up and with the AP gen from them to my Slipped, I manage to get a charge off on to the Redcap Twin (who will have full AP next turn) and capture my own font with the Mongrel. 4th turn: Redcap Twin gets one attack off and beats a hasty retreat knowing that she will get TKO'ed next turn. He deploys a DEP next to her. (they're now halfway between font and shrine, basically close to their UD shrine). I keep the momentum up, deploy a Spark Crone for the def and spd reduc + DoT and to use Idol which I promptly deploy. I move the Howler and Mongrel up, AP gen the Slipped, equip a beautiful Tempest Crown on his wolfy head, and manage to get exactly enough AP to engage the Twin and get 1 attack off + a 2nd attack from manic. My Slipped is back to almost full hp 5th turn: Big miscalculation from me here and I've left the Redcap with 2 hp left. My opponent uses scry and is clearly looking for his Sacrifice or Retribution, but thankfully does not find it. It would've most likely ended the game for me. Things were not looking too good for the UDer here, he beckons the 2nd Redcap, but ends up behind the DEP and too far to get a hit off my Slipped. He gets the double attack off from his dying Redcap Twin and proceeds to fire blast my Slipped and her own Redcap to prevent swarm from my Howler. My Slipped is left with 5-10 hp and I think it was over for him here. He deploys a 3rd Redcap at the shrine and ends turn Things get a bit hazy after this but basically I get 3 attacks of on the Slipped next turn, siphon a healthy bit of HP and maybe do another deploy. Game was over the next turn when he was about to take out my Slipped, but then the last attack did not go through thanks to Whispers on one of his Redcaps. He surrendered as the Whispers animation was finishing. Very satisfactory game where I feel I adapted to his strong first turn deploy and played to my first turn deploy's strengths. I did get lucky with drawing Tempest Crown early on though. --- I do not know if you guys found this interesting or maybe just gratuitous, but I feel like it was a good match report representative about how Kanen as a theme can win a lot of their games through adapting to the revamp changes. In this case, the Slipped being super cheap, Whispers still being 30 nora and incredibly efficient.
Hey guyz , i decided to play an op bg.....and kanen was the easiest( due to the main runes being cheap and easy to get) thing i could acquire for now.... manage to go 10/0 ish so far...but i wanna check if this is really max potential or can push it even further Kanen whirlwind is replaceable...still thinking on it... Suggestions? im playing around the synergy as much as i can to squeeze every last drop of power out of it( hence why no garin... also i hate mercenary champs)
Great to see you taking an interest in the cause agirgis. A quick point I'd definitely throw out the whirlwind and put another alpha in there, most probably the Kanen Alpha. Tough 3 is always great, and the improve range will work well for your range heavy (for Kanen anyway) BG. Most importantly, with so many little Kanen, and not so many big ones, you're going to have a terrible time on the maps where you have split skirmishes like 4 font K'thir and the big ST map (unless you can successfully do a nice rush at one point). So having another Alpha in there that can hold his own solo will help you out there. This is how I see it anyway. Purge vs Cleansing Emerald is arguable and up to taste, I used to run both, but I've since removed purge for another champ. Matter of taste so no comment there. 2x quickening in my opinion is definitely an overkill, especially when you're running 16 champs. I would take out 1 and add Garin or something, he's so efficient with his scythe whirl it basically gives him perma evasive 2 and is an AoE 3 20 dmg (when he's fully boosted with banner, idol and from rupture alpha or crone). Love the 2x Whispers and VP, great choices. One issue that might crop up is you only have one source of magic damage, Kiergana, could end up screwing you over in future match-ups. How do you run her? If you're 10/0 so far maybe I'm the one with the skewed perspective on how to play Kanen, but the above is just how I see it. GL! EDIT: Now that I look at your BG again, it's not that your Kanen are bottom heavy, it's just that you're running less champs than other Kanen players including myself. I guess this is not objectively bad but I would do it differently with more Kanen and more alphas overall.
Alright till try to reply to everything you said.....thanks for reply btw Most the kanens are cheap so big maps arent a issue.... just gotta play smart.( also whispers is op and makes this way too easy) I don't rush with kanen unless i get draws i want.... i prefer to turtle in my SP 50% spell resist +1 def font, kanen in numbers are the real power Purge , it can be used offensively , and defensively.... no contest imo, but i do see C.Emerald can be used more then once so thats something..... *but it doesnt dispell* i hate garin (personal playstyle reasons) x2 quickening because well... tons of dmg and its cheap, but i see your point Kanen has physical , electric , sonic , and fire damage... so not too worried about only having 1 mage Kiergana how i run her? boost kanen and pack leader.... just keep her in the back to apply boost kanen and proc pack leader.... long range never hurts Why i don't run a lot of champs?? Because SL/SP (mostly SP) have great spells ... and relics.. ( rocktrap) which id run if i had space...... Its a sin to play a SP split and not abuse the op spells from both factions
I'm also looking for advice on my Kanen bg. http://poxbase.com/deck/cttCiFci3CybCyTcyYci=CiZciGCynciYchDs6Ls5Qsas5hs6_s84s73s5wr2YrPr2fe1Oe21 Something I just noticed is that Crazed Warmandrils aren't Race: Kanen anymore. Do you think they're still worth including as cheap, 7-spd champs with Pack Mentality?
The shell is there, all there is left is simply small tweaks according to taste. Kierg+2 sparkles is kinda low for Idol imo but nothing major if you turtle (like you said you were). Whirlwind is indeed meh but far from a terrible champ. No Kanen Alpha is indeed a head scratcher, especially if you run 2x Howler. Cancel's power mainly fluctuates on the meta, was pretty average pre-revamp, I assume it's worth a slot now.
Its a balance i think..... too many alphas...not enough champs for the alpha to use..... so i try to keep it to 3 - 4 alphas. Today i lost my first game at 15/1...... To be fair i played it badly :c
You're trying to superchamp way too hard, does that still work? I mean a month ago slapping all of this on Balpha or Rupture might have some (limited) success but I somehow doubt it's still viable. As for the shitmonkeys, kanens aren't really lacking in the cheap speed department, axe them for a 2nd pillager and... errr... something?
B.Alpha can triple attack easily with unleash.....and he is tanky as hell, ill keep thinking on K.Alpha... might replace whirl wind with it just to play around with it a few games
Hi Vipoid, I'll expand a bit on Jib's sentiments. The warmandrils are definitely not worth keeping in there in my opinion. Get rid of them, get two extra Spark Crones for the much needed alt damage and range, as well as because they're just so damn powerful for 79 nora. I would replace Acid Storm with Avalanche, or if you want some synergy with the crones and Rupture Alpha get Lightning Storm (not such a big deal, but I think Avalanche is far superior to all of them). As Jib said, too many super-champ focused spells, Alphas are already big enough targets in Kanen without you painting a big bullseye over them with zealotry or something, one banish or blink or whatever removal from play affect the opponent has and it's game over. Remove a few those and make space for 2x Whispers and 1x Vertical Push. Trackers, in my opinion, have become too situational to run 2x of, and are only worth deploying in maps where you can get their hidden off. I would replace one of them with some cheaper meat of your choice. I used to run both Purge and Cleansing Emerald, but using both of them in one game a bit too situational. Agirgis defended Purge a few posts up, so maybe you want to keep that and remove C.E, but get rid of one of them and replace with something more functional in the BG.
Thanks for the replies. Out of interest, what makes the monkeys so bad? Is it their health, or something else? Ok, I'll make those changes. You're probably right. I used to really like Trackers - though that was back when they had 2 Hidden abilities, and damage that wouldn't embarrass a duckling. Out of interest, which Hidden do you run yours with - rock, vegetation or sand?
Sorry, one more thing - is Kanen Cultist any good? Unless I'm missing something, she seems very expensive for what she brings. Does anyone use her?
RE: Warmandrills, for me, the low HP is definitely it, it might have been just bareable before when you'd get the +11 from boost and idol, but now, it's 41 hp max, and that's just not enough for an out of theme rune. The only reason I'd use Kanen Cultist is for synergy with Mine Field, that knockback would be crazy good when you manage to get it off in synergy with a couple of mines for an insta-kill. Even then that's fairly situational (some people don't even like Mine Field, I love it). Others would argue for other reasons to run the Cultist, but I definitely wouldn't use her at her current cost. EDIT: I run my Tracker with rock, yeah. EDIT 2: To be honest vipoid, just to add a bit more of my own opinion, you should only make the changes that you see the sense in. If you find some synergy of your own in the way you like to play, maybe getting a super amped up Kanen Slipped with Havoc's Touch and one-rounding champs that your opponent thought were safe is your style of play, and you enjoy it, and you see success with it, why the heck not. The above suggestions by myself and others are just the way we think is the best way to play Kanen. If everyone thought the same way we'd never discover new synergies that we didn't consider or feel were viable before, so be as adventurous as you like.
I see, thanks. Shame about the type change. Also, I miss Lifedrinker on the Warmandrils. Ok, thanks. quote="Pipster, post: 69260, member: 1476"] EDIT 2: To be honest vipoid, just to add a bit more of my own opinion, you should only make the changes that you see the sense in. If you find some synergy of your own in the way you like to play, maybe getting a super amped up Kanen Slipped with Havoc's Touch and one-rounding champs that your opponent thought were safe is your style of play, and you enjoy it, and you see success with it, why the heck not. The above suggestions by myself and others are just the way we think is the best way to play Kanen. If everyone thought the same way we'd never discover new synergies that we didn't consider or feel were viable before, so be as adventurous as you like.[/quote] To be honest, it's more that I haven't played Kanen much since the revamp - and I hadn't really thought about removing Zealotry and the like. Also, I play a lot of single-player missions, where super champs tend to work very well. Out of interest, are there any heroes or other champions (not necessarily Kanen) that you think can still work well as superchamps (i.e. good targets for spells like Zealotry)?
i replaced whirlwind with alpha... but ended up replacing alpha with new SL champ...... need anti summon in this meta badly...., plus it cleanses and good range champ.... run at lowest rank of regen + cleanse. Enjoying it
