A thread for Deep Elves and their synergy talk. Intro: First of all, I did like to say the following. Playing, as things are post-revamp, it seems like DEs are now made to play swarm, rather than using stronger champs. Also, it seems like they have a special trick of allowing more and more aggressive uses of Maddening Echoes for heavy crowd control. Moving on... Champions stuff: Maiden: Untested. She seems really good for Fire BGs. Though, on paper, she looks sexy for 69-73. Lorekeeper: Tested: DON'T. There's nothing good in favour of this guy. He's too slow, and doesn't increase Treachery nor Fanatic's damage. Turn him into shards. Release him form his pain. Fanatic: Tested: Essence Capture & Surge: Demon. A killer machine as it is now. He will die quickly under normal circunstances. But he will certainly do enough damage. Belly Dancer: Tested. Some people says she's usable, but I can't find reasons to agree. Her Fascinate can be usesful, and her Belly Dance seems like a good alternative to protect mobs. I don't recommend her because of her poor speed. Infiltrator: Tested: Shadow Shift & Stun. Interesting Stealth unit with high DMG, teleport, debuff and relocation abbilities. Strongly recommended against Nonkan-Doh units and font stealing/contest. I still prefer Priestess over her. Manslayer: Tested: Combat Awareness & Rend 1. Excellent killer. Quick, and efficient. Masochist: Poorly tested. I don't really feel she's the tank everybody is talking about. Most of times, her big defense and health doesn't make for her poor speed and damage. Merc: Tested: Meele Specialist 3 & Hunter: Savage Tundra. Effective against Meowss and ST. Her biggest asset is her low cost. Monk: Untested. His price is very restrictive, though he seems like a bulkier version of Pincushio for DEs. In theory he should be able to avoid at least one ranged attack per turn for opponent control. Priestess: Tested: Poison 1 & Multiattack 2. Number one transporter, and a surprisingly effective backup attacker. Ritualist: Tested: Drain 1 & Hex 2. Sounds good for a ranged unit and alternative damage source. Her debuff comes in handy. And she is meant to take punishment, so you won't suffer from pushing her forward. Scout: Tested: Shadowspawn & Detection 3. I can't really explain it, but he's more effective than it looks. His Pilfer feels like a bonus compared to what he can do. Good font control, and detection. Summoner: Tested: Invigorate 2 & Summon Imp 1. Interesting addition for a swarm BG. Imps can be used sparingly but still usesful. Alternative high damage with very few resistances avialable. Temptress: Tested: by Mannfreid1. Mannfreid1 suggested she can be used behind a couple of champions. Also, alternative damage effective against Ethereals. Demon Lich: tESTED: Swarm: Deep Elf Skeleton and Cleansing Flame. He's extremely versatile, can pussify a champ, cause alternative Magic damage, and Swarm: DE Skeleton is a life-saving bonus which also benefits Treachery and Fanatic. Strongly recommended over Ritualist. Demonologist: Tested: Bleed & either Pawn or Drain 1. He sounds similar to Lich at least for the Swarm part which can also be used to gain a benefit from DE Skeletons and weakened champs. For the most part he's better at Vampyre BGs if it was a solid theme. D-Lich is still better than him. Grimlic: Tested: Flame Nova 1 & Fire Bomb 3. He works well amongst his kind. You will never regret summoning him. Caverunner: Tested: Tunnel 2 & Fire Bomb 3. She's an excellent support, and font stealer. You won't regret summoning her. Fireslinger: Untested. I need to test him. He sounds like a cost effective, alternative damage source. Receive full FF bonus. Griefbearer: Tested: Dispel & Conduit 1. He's an excellent shield. He has also helped remove nasty effects from weak champs. Also, alternative damage source. Thanks Agirgis1 for making it clear Conduit doesn't works. Good for Griefbearer, he's now cheaper. Griefsinger: Untested. I need to. PiPPoLnZ9 suggested combining her with Burnout. Messenger: Untested. She looks too expensive for semi-ranged alternative damage. But she looks like an interesting support. Reaper: Tested: Scythe Swirl & Counterattack: Meele. Excellent against crowd of champions. I use her to weaken the herd before playing ME. She can also damage shadowspawned relics with Scythe Swirl. Effective against ranged units. Soultorch: Untested. Nor I want to. She's too expensive for what she brings to the table. Twins: Tested: Inmortality & Rend 1. Excellent attackers. Very reliable despite the shrine damage. Shadow Master: Untested. He screams Stealth/Rogue'n'rangers bg. Useless for a DE BG. NEW!!! Bloodbow Infantry: sTested: Fearsome Hunter & Bleed. A lovely champ at level 1. This ranged heavy hitter was possibly made for Bleed BG...only if UD had one that works. Still, for DEs she's a must. Without her range, she only can get stronger. NEW!!! Nefari Schemer: Tested: Pull & Hex 1. Many of us only wait for the update where they will say she´s getting nerfed. I seriously feel like she's the Dev´s way to say "sorry all these years for not working on you, guys" An retardedly strong attacker/support champ that have PLENTY of tactical uses in battle. NEW!!! Shadowrake: Tested: Scour 1 & Pawn. This is the proof of the above. Incredibly strong, and incredibly usesful on early game. Soon-to-be nerfed because UD can´t have nice things (at least that's what we learned from SOE). I encourage you to have at least one in your DE bg. He's worth his 81 nora. Other stuff: Mark of Sheoul: Tested. Excellent buff. Helpful plenty of times. Orb of Protection: Tested. Excellent protection. Specially combined with Reaper's Evasive and Grifbearer's Nexus aura. Grimlic's Treachery: Tested. It works for when you need to kill a transfigured avatar with <4 life. Grimlic's Deception increases damage by 2 for each Grimlic illusion in play. Burnout: Poorly tested. Should work as a poor man's Retribution, or an alternative Maddening Echoes used on Griefsinger. Maddening Echoes: Tested. The reason of why they are cheap. Manslayer and any sub-65 nora DE will do good increasing damage. Nefari runes: Nefari Dragon: Untested. I have to. This guy's stats indicate he's meant to be a cheap semi-range tank. Just like the kind of stuff you put in a DE bg. Ember Wasp: Tested. Recommended for BG using both Grimlic and Caverunners. Explode their Firebombs on it!
I personally like Demon Lich. If you take the fire eater upgrade with cleansing flame, I think it can hold its ground. Pretty sure set ablaze can be targeted on itself and then cleanse is obviously cleanse. Good for fire bgs, however, with no fire eater (if you take the swarm upgrade), I don't think it would be as useful. Nice breakdown on runes btw ^^
IMO Sumonner is amazing with Invigorate 2 (4 AP gain). Think Demon Lich is needed for the Magical attack. Sadly it is pretty important with all the Incorporeal stuff in the game. Temptress is not really a viable alternative. It is sad to see the Legendary deep elves, with Magical attack, so ineffective at their high costs(Demonologist and Nefarri Messanger). It`s good that DEs have some variety with fire and psychic damage, but still magical is way more needed. Runing non DEs in a mainly DE BG may be necessary. I`m seriously contemplating Ember Wasp and even Corrupted Cultist. Thou they would kinda make Treachery not worth it.
Griefbearer: Tested: Dispel & Conduit 2. He's an excellent shield. He has also helped remove nasty effects from weak champs. Also, alternative damage source. Conduct 2 does not even work now its bugged.... you are spending nora for nothing xD......reduce to Conduct 1 Demon Lich: Poorly Tested. I don't really know what to do with him. He's too squishy for what he can do. I love this thing , but opinions. Summoner: Poorly tested. It's unclear what is her role. Summoning imps is a waste of time. And her low range is very restrictive. Still, I never run her in my BGs. hmm... ehh... no comment Infiltrator: Poorly tested. Apparently, she's better in a Ranger/Rogue/Stealth BG than a DE BG. ok fair point.....but she hits hard as hell while being annoying stealthing around paralyzing things Reaper: Tested: Scythe Swirl & Counterattack: Meele. Excellent crowd control champion. She can also damage shadowspawned relics. Effective against range units. I just wanted to clarify crowd control is things that slow or disable the enemy.... stuns etc , so she actually does no crowd control....... good champion for cheap tho
Whoah Whoah Whoah? What's this trash talking on my temptress? She's cheap, has ranged, does magical damage, and comes with 2 damage reducing pbaoe that prevents her from being attacked. And the firedancer with arcane song and blind makes her quite effective as well. Granted they are both only range 3, but there isn't a whole lot of ranged to choose from.
Nice breakdown. Only thing I'm curious about is why summoning Imps is a waste of time. Could you elaborate on that at all?
Summoning imps is not a waste of time, they are stealthed on summon and they are great for getting the pawn proc active, it also adds another thing for your opponent to consider on the board, it may not have much dmg or hp but in 1 turn it can save her if focused.
Firedancer is one of the most efficient Deep elves right now, imo. with that range and her harrassment abilities, she is very versatile and can fill a lot of roles. Only downside is her speed, so her early game can be quite weak
I should do more tests on Belly Dancer. I think her 5 speed is the reason she can't be played. Specially if you need an attacker on late game.
With regard to Demon Lich, I like him in Fire bgs, but struggle to include him elsewhere. His damage is reasonable, but without the healing from Fire Eater/Acolyte, he just seems too squishy (I really miss the option for Lifedrinker on him). I actually find myself running Nefari Messenger over him. She's definitely overpriced at the moment, but with Regen and Life Siphon she has better staying power, SPD7 and Initiative let her either reach fonts quickly or get into action immediately after being deployed, and Drive is often very useful.
Also: Grimlics treachery: Yeah, i stopped running it. I wanted to love it. Global damage for every deep elf I have out, in a battlegroup full of deep elves? Sign me up! In reality: 2 damage per D.E. is to small. By the time it's useful to drop it, you are lucky to have more then a few out, resaulting in 6-8 damage. if it was 4-5 per, I'de play it. Otherwise, only useful to give stealthy things damage.
I mostly use it as a poor-man's UV, though with 7 or 8 DEs out, 14 global dmg ain't nothin' to Firk with
First, no. Nor Grimlic or Treachery have any sort of interaction, besides the racial, which severely increases Treachery damage. Second. I did exchanged the Twins for Ritualist. I'm updating the list.
I just find it ironic that you list Treachery in bold red as a no-go, when DevilsRath plays 2x Treachery and is rank one :V.
Vipoid made it with only one word. You used 25. And still, you said literally nothing. Your English professors must be proud of you, Nea.
I don't think I said anything that deserved ad hominem, and I said enough for 3 people to figure out what I'm talking about. Of course, I could have just said what kind of interaction grants extra damage, but then I'd waste an opportunity for someone to tell me I'm wrong when I'm right and insult me after, why would I pass on that? And if you want to mock my use of English, which maybe isn't perfect since I'm just a secondary speaker, it's good enough for me to know what "literally" means, I don't think you do.
