lost trails

Discussion in 'Savage Tundra' started by calisk, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    so I think lost trails* is a good spell.

    * - this refers to how the spell currently operates and says nothing about how badly it's coded nor it's written effect

    I've been play testing it, despite how buggy it is to get a feel for when I could use it and what not, and I believe there is a real place for this in the st meta, and all you need to do is simplify it, it's honestly trying to do far too much currently and you are not focusing on the strong role this spell can fill.

    so first off I play this rune as a defensive font protector as that is all it currently can be based on how it works, and I strongly suggest you never make it an offensive one. this spell is used as a cheap way to protect a font without the need to deploy a high cost champion at a font just to drive a unit off.

    next let me write down exactly how it works as far as i can tell...

    "target friendly font you control. the next time a champion moves within this font area over the next X turns that champion is relocated to the nearest deployment zone they control and gains wandering if they are the enemy or 5 ap if they are friendly."

    now I say X because as far as I can tell their is no rhyme or reason to when it ends some times it 6 turns sometimes it's 4 turns, I really cannot say what causes it to end but it does. next it doesn't matter if you control the font when they enter the font, I've had them relic contest it to just have the relocated afterwards on the next round which I like.

    now for my suggestion which is far simpler then what it currently does

    "target friendly font the next time an enemy champion enters this deployment zone within 10 turns it is relocated to the furthest deployment zone. this effect is hidden untill triggered"

    simple and clean

    so first off the friendly stuff is likely causing some of the bugs might even be removing the effects without showing that it is, next the friendly stuff is pointless it simply is extra coding that is impossible to make any tactical use out of so it's gone.

    adding wandering, haven't had any issues but the effect can be done just by putting them further back so let's remove another possible way bugs could be happening.

    the duration this is the worst bug of them all honestly not knowing when this is in effect and for how long is killer, some visual aid in the game to know it's still their would be amazing, also clearly defining the duration would be nice.

    now how often can you fix a rune by removing stuff from it and simplifying at the same time? not very often so I hope you take the chance, I noticed you wanting to do changes on it with the last patch so hopefully this feedback helps you out @Sokolov
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  2. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Saw you using this the other day and added it to my BG - been loving it (especially good in this meta).

    That said, it did take me a couple tries to actually figure out how it works for the details above. Definitely needs to be rewritten at least.
     
  3. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    The code is actually fairly straight forward and I haven't been able to reproduce the ending before 6 turns issue.

    Even if I contest it with a relic, the effect remains.

    ~

    <addEffect effectType="IDOL_LOCATION_EFFECT" messageType="OWNER" effectName="LostTrailsEffect"
    duration="6" target="$validfont" radius="$deploymentRange"/>

    The above line adds the below LocationEffect to the font:

    <locationEffect effectName="LostTrailsEffect" isPositive="true">

    <do trigger="AFTER_MOVES_WITHIN_RANGE">

    <getValidIdolLocation idol="%EFFECT_ACTOR" locationType="DEPLOYMENT_ZONE_NEXT_CLOSEST" originLocation="%EFFECT_ACTOR" varName="location" whichDeploymentZone="%EFFECT_ACTOR"/>
    <given>
    <is rightValue="$location" leftValue="%EFFECT_SECONDARY_LOCATION" />
    <do>
    <getValidIdolLocation idol="%EFFECT_ACTOR" locationType="DEPLOYMENT_ZONE_CLOSEST" originLocation="%EFFECT_ACTOR" varName="location" whichDeploymentZone="%EFFECT_ACTOR"/>
    </do>
    </given>

    <relocateIdol idol="%EFFECT_ACTOR" target="$location" ></relocateIdol>

    <given>
    <not><isFriendly source="%SOURCE" target="%EFFECT_ACTOR"/></not>
    <do>

    <!-- not friendly, gains wandering -->
    <addAbility dbId="2266" className="Wandering" duration="4" target="%EFFECT_ACTOR"/>
    </do>
    <doElse>

    <!-- is friendly, gains 5 AP -->
    <gainAP value="5" target="%EFFECT_ACTOR"/>

    </doElse>
    </given>

    <removeEffect effect="%EFFECT"/>

    </do>
    </locationEffect>
     
  4. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Either way, will update the description.
     
  5. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    well as I posted in the other forum if you removed the friendly effect it would improve the spell and simplify it's effect, it's like if snowblind bounced your own targeted spells at this point.

    curious what other trigger events do you have as well, because it should be firing when you enter the font not move around inside it I'd think
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  6. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    The code is actually fairly straight forward and I haven't been able to reproduce the ending before 6 turns issue.


    <addEffect effectType="IDOL_LOCATION_EFFECT" messageType="OWNER" effectName="LostTrailsEffect"
    duration="8" target="$validfont" radius="$deploymentRange"/>

    <locationEffect effectName="LostTrailsEffect" isPositive="true">

    <do trigger="AFTER_ENTER_WITHIN_RANGE">

    <getValidIdolLocation idol="%EFFECT_ACTOR" locationType="DEPLOYMENT_ZONE_NEXT_FARTHEST" originLocation="%EFFECT_ACTOR" varName="location" whichDeploymentZone="%EFFECT_ACTOR"/>
    <given>
    <is rightValue="$location" leftValue="%EFFECT_SECONDARY_LOCATION" />
    <isFriendly source="%SOURCE" target="%EFFECT_ACTOR"/>
    <do>
    <getValidIdolLocation idol="%EFFECT_ACTOR" locationType="DEPLOYMENT_ZONE_CLOSEST" originLocation="%EFFECT_ACTOR" varName="location" whichDeploymentZone="%EFFECT_ACTOR"/>
    </do>
    </given>

    <relocateIdol idol="%EFFECT_ACTOR" target="$location" ></relocateIdol>

    <given>
    </given>

    <removeEffect effect="%EFFECT"/>

    </do>
    </locationEffect>

    never seen this coding language before but my ideal version would be something to this effect.
     
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Can you explain how it is pointless and impossible to get use out of to gain 5 AP?

    And yes, it'd be fairly to just strip out the clauses below it, but neither of those clauses would be causing any bugs, tbh, so I am not sure it's worth changing. It's just a friendly/not friendly check.

    That said, I do think the friendly clause makes it less useful as a counter rune because you have to play around not triggering it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It's functionally the same thing in the vast majority of situations at least in regards to enemies.

    I don't believe there is another trigger that works here. It'd actually be quite difficult to do what you are suggesting, as we'd have to actually keep track of whether each champion is currently in the target font zone or not, and then check against that. And every new champion coming into play would need to be have its location verified first, and we'd have to handle stuff like Summons/Call of the Tundra, etc. that don't have an initial location. It'd almost certainly be quite buggy and take a long time to code.
     
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Note that there isn't a DEPLOYMENT_ZONE_NEXT_FARTHEST.
     
  10. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    How does vortex work it always puts it at the shrine and often the far side, figured that was what ever the farthest was
     
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It manually checks every tile of the shrine deployment zone and finds the farthest one.

    <setVariable value="0" varName="targetDist"/>
    <setVariable value="0" varName="targetLoc"/>
    <onMapLocations range="$depZone" each="loc" loc="$shrine">
    <do>
    <getDistanceBetweenLocations source="%TARGET" target="$loc" varName="dist"/>
    <given>
    <and>
    <canExistOnLocation location="$loc" idol="%TARGET"/>
    <is rightValue="$targetDist" leftValue="$dist" operation="GREATER_THAN_OR_EQUAL"/>
    </and>
    <do>
    <setVariable value="$dist" varName="targetDist"/>
    <setVariable value="$loc" varName="targetLoc"/>
    </do>
    </given>
    </do>
    </onMapLocations>
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  12. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Ah well no need to change then I thought it would be a simple change could still be enemy only though Or maybe change the friendly effect to something. I mean the original Idea made a little sense.

    That was you'd deploy at the shrine and have it relocate to the font with 5 ap. But you can't do that now, that said even if the idea made sense it also meant you couldn't deploy and champs with effect in play and was why nobody even tried to use it

    Not much coming to mind what a friendly effect could be though
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  13. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Not saying anything should be changed or anything, but in my eyes the friendly clause makes the spell weaker.
     
  14. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    yep it's how I see it as well.

    the spell isn't the strongest in the world, it's something you may find a use for once a game if you are lucky, having a built in sandbag doesn't seem needed and it's just a carry over from an original design which never worked.

    the wandering thing is fine no need to change that, I just thought it would be a quick change that could shorten the description text, but if it takes any effort at all how it currently works is more then acceptable
     
  15. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    I like the wandering on the spell and if the duration went back to being infinite in exchange for the friendly thing being removed that would make the spell very useful. Initially I thought the spell on the friendly portion worked like this...Your opponents champ enters their own friendly font zone and gained wandering if your champ enters your own font zone it gained 5ap. Since it does not work on your opponent champs like that then the removal makes sense.
     
  16. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    I think that would make it incredibly op.
     
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Why? He is only asking for a negative aspect of the spell to be removed "in exchange" for a large buff ;)
     
    Tweek516 likes this.
  18. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I agree, whether or not the friendly part is removed it's fine but I would prefer it to be gone, it's simply their as a hindrance.

    soko said what I was thinking but wasn't going to say lol
     
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    New Desc:
    Target a friendly deployment zone. For 8 turns, the next time an enemy champion enters one of the deployment zone spaces, that champion is relocated to the next closest deployment zone it's controller controls and has gains <ability value=2266>Wandering</ability> for 3 turns. This effect is hidden until triggered.
     
    Braxzee, calisk and Tweek516 like this.
  20. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    Sweet
     

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