Markoth's Desk (August 18th patch list and next patch discussion)

I don't think so. Look at Salaman Hunter, he still has his blind. Also, myx sandsnipe was hidden sand, but he did get changed.
The proposed changes would make sharpshooter pretty great imo.

 

What is everyone's opinions of Grintmaw?

 

Also here is my assessment on paladins for those interested. It was written after Revamp1.0 so it's a bit outdated but still mostly valid.

Paladins Observations

• Paladins are in a rough spot due to an almost across-the-board cost increase. They simultaneously lost large chunks of synergy between units. Paladins typically are very tanky and slightly over-costed but after you deploy a few the synergy between them pushes them into efficiency. If they are to survive as a theme they are going to need some of their synergy back.

Paladin Ideas

• Paladins should be split into two groups (From a design perspective. They don’t need anything visual that a player can discern.) that represent what it is that drives the Paladin.
  Group A will henceforth be referred to as the Holy Order (Or a Holy Paladin) and represents a Paladin driven by faith. Typically a Holy Paladin will be very tanky and fights with either blade or light (Physical or Magic damage). They tend to have defensive abilities (Defender, Bodyguard, Righteous Shield) and heal through abilities like Divine Favor, Consecration, etc. They are mostly comprised of the older dwarves and some angels.
• Group B is the Inquisition and represents a Paladin driven by Law and Order. They care less about defending the weak than they do about spreading their own distorted view of Al’Mara’s love. They fight with Steel and Fire (Physical and Fire damage) and will have more offensively minded abilities. They are typically comprised of younger dwarves and barbarians.

Angel of Mercy - Role: Pure Support

• Improve Range removed from base. (Its unnecessary, expensive and useless most the time.)
• Cleansing Aura moved from upgrades to base.
• Commander: Paladin removed from upgrades. (Never made sense)
• Levitate added to upgrades. (Now Default)
• Amplify Healing added to upgrades.

Angel of Protection - Role: Ranged Damage

• Perfect just the way it is.

Archangel of Al’Mara - Role: Tank, Brawler, Badass

• Kinda expensive for what it does. How much cheaper would it be at 6 speed?
• Attack Charged (1) removed from base.
• Abuse Charged (2) added to base.

Attendant Squire - Role: Support, Wimp

• Slightly too cheap.
• Damage to 10 to force his cost up a bit.

Bastion the Avenger - Role: Samuel L. Jackson type Badass M***********

• Dude is a monster now. Stoneclan’s Tough is exactly what he needed to make him viable.

Brubaker Bros. - Role: No one likes them anyway.

• Skip, but Sibling is OP

Charger Knight - Role: Tanky, Beater

• Losing Blitz and a reduction on his base Damage severely reduced his kill potential. In current state isnt even close to worth 85.
• Race: Barbarian added. (For synergy with violent, etc.)
• Speed changed to 6
• Damage changed to 10 (Or 11 if the cost stays at 85)

Council Elder - Role: Fighter, Spell Control

• He is awesome.

Crusader - Role: ???

• He just seems so bland and boring when he used to be so cool.
• Remove both upgrade trees.
• Have one Offensive tree with stuff like Execute, Conqueror and ???
• Have one Defensive tree with stuff like idk.

Euan Ironfist - Role: Tank, Fighter

• He is perfect.

Ironfist Inquisitor / Inquisitor Isran - Role: Fighter

• Ironfist Inquisitor (LE) and Inquisitor Isran have a different upgrade path than regular Ironfist Inquisitor. However the regular Inquisitor has a more diverse choice of upgrades and should be the basis for the other two versions of the rune. I would like to completely rework this rune into a upper mid cost rune instead of just another expensive beater. I could be wrong in my figures but this should reduce the unit to low 80s making Commander much more accessible.
• Bounty Hunter removed from Base
• Declare Hunted added to Base
• Sunder removed from upgrade tree A.
• Strike added to upgrade tree A.
• Pace removed from upgrade tree B
• Inquisition added to upgrade tree B

Inquisitor Magnus - Role: Fighter

• He is pretty good. I miss having Adaptive: Ironfist on him though.
• Barbarian added to race. Adds synergy and his Sister (Isran) is a Barb already.

Ironfist Minister - Role: Support, Anti-Mage

• Still my favorite rune in IS. If his cost gets dropped 1-2 Nora with the algoritm change he will be perfect.

Ironfist Paladin - Role: Support, Tank

• Having Noble Sacrifice is pretty awesome but no one will pay 85 for it when we have to pay 75-100 nora for all of the other units.
• Defense lowered to 2
• HP lowered to 45
• Combined with the algorithm update this should put Paladin in a “sweet spot” for 5 speed support units.

Ironfist Warsait - Role: Tank

• I had completely passed over this guy upon first inspection but upon seeing him he seems pretty damned awesome.
• No changes unless you can find a way to get Antagonize on him.

Master Axeman - Role: Damage

• No idea why he is a Paladin but I aint complaining. He is fine as he is.

Northern Cross Cardinal - Role: Support

• You know what would be awesome? Rework the Sermon ability to affect units of the same race instead of just Draksar and find a way to fit it on him.
• Change race from Dwarf, Human to Dwarf, Barbarian

Northern Cross Fanatic - Role: Melee Damage

• Perfect as she is

Northern Cross Militia - Role: Support

• Perfect as is.

Northern Cross Priestess - Role: Ranged, Support

• Got some cool new toys. My only gripe is the cost of Call: Celestial Spear went up while also getting nerfed. It can now only be deployed adjacent to the unit making her very awkward to use as a squishy ranged unit. She either needs the range back on Call: Spear which I think is a bad idea or the ability needs its cost lowered by like 7 nora. Otherwise she is a squishy ranged unit with no damage that costs 81-85 nora.

Northern Cross Templar - Role: Bruiser

• He is perfect

Paladin Commander - Role: Support

• It is time. For too long this guy has sat useless in the shoebox when he has so much potential for awesomeness.
• Command: Paladin added to base.
• Command: Heal removed from upgrade tree B
• Command: Block moved to upgrade tree B
• Command: Dodge moved to upgrade tree B
• Heal Self removed from upgrade tree A
• Rallying Cries (3) added to upgrade tree A
• Hold the Line added to upgrade tree A
• Impassioned added to upgrade tree A

Talgar Ironfist - Role: Tank, Brawler

• Perfect the way it is.

Vengeant Knight - Role: Tank, Fighter

• Perfect the way it is.

 

why would you put tough on strux upgrades? smh

Remove increase range from AoM? I dont even...

ok, guess ill go away from this thread.

 

Improve range is a 10 Nora ability that only effects AoProt, Archangel and Aspect. It only acts as a sandbag for people that don't have Protection or Aspect, both of which are fairly difficult to get. Do you feel that Improve Range is something that should be kept?

The purpose of this thread is to inspire discussion, not showcase my ideas. Please tell me what your thoughts are. I am not perfect and conversation can only strengthen the viability of what can be put forward to the devs.

 

I like you idea for sharpshooter, but I would keep far shot over piercing personally.

 

I put together some observations regarding Dwarves. Note that while I believe the core theme, and all its variations, is in a fine place at the moment, several individual champions could use a look. The main problems I see with the Dwarf theme is that, outside of a Drunk deck or equipment-based deck, there is no reason to run them together AS a theme. You're basically just tossing a bunch of champions with Race: Dwarf into a deck and calling it a Dwarf deck. Unlike other themes, Dwarves do not have Boost, Improve: X, decent sources of Surge (key word here is decent), or supporting spells specifically for Dwarves. Pre-revamp, you were rewarded for Carousing 5 or more Dwarves with a rank of Resistance - Physical. The new Carouse is a great mechanic, but I would argue that it offers less to full Dwarf decks than it does to Drunk decks, which I consider a sub-theme of Dwarves. This all being said, I would be willing to sacrifice some general goodstuff power on Dwarf champions for theme-buffing power that promotes the idea of the Dwarf theme. Here is what I have come up with (mind you, this list is not comprehensive, and I may have been a tad drunk when I thought of it).

Armorer: This guy has a clearly defined role, which focuses on the buffing of your other champions' defense. Unfortunately, Dwarven Sergeant already has Defender 3, which makes Armorer's entire first upgrade line redundant.

• Enduring Aura 2/3/4 replaces upgrade line Defender 1/2/3
• Improve: Defense replaces Train: Defense on base

Battle Matron: She wants so badly to be a linchpin rune in Dwarf decks, but she falls just short due to her conflicting abilities. Surge: Dwarf screams combat role, but every single one of her other abilities are directed to a support role. She needs to be more streamlined and focused. These changes allow you to build Battle Matron as either a support Dwarf, or a battle Dwarf, but not both.

• Surge: Dwarf removed from base
• Upgrade line 1 changed to Surge: Dwarf 1, Heal Champion 3, and Motivate
• Upgrade line 2 changed to Bulwark: Dwarf, Command: Charge, and Drive

Brubaker Brothers: These guys simply need to have Sibling base again. That was their whole deal pre-revamp, but now you're forced to choose between stats and more defensive capabilities. Having an extra point of speed wouldn't hurt either, just to lessen the pain of deploying one without the other.

• Sibling added to base
• +1 speed added to base
• Bravery added to upgrade line 1

Drunken Thug: A tad too efficient, with a bare-bones build coming out at 49 nora for almost 60 HP. A simple solution would be to raise the base cost.

• Base nora cost raised to 60 nora.

Dwarven Alchemist: Rarely run, even at release, his only saving grace has been the versatility of his potions. Except with Stoneskin Potion being an upgrade now, he's lost a lot of his luster.

• Grant: Stoneskin Potion to base, replacing Grant: Rage Potion
• Upgrade line 2 changed to Flash Bomb, Acid Bomb 2, and Blast
• Upgrade line 1 changed to Fire Bomb 2, Set Ablaze, and Deflect: Fire

Dwarven Axeguard: Standard front-line grunt, who is not seeing much play due to his boring demeanor and his cost. Pre-revamp, his Defensive Strike (via Hold the Line) + Riposte + Sunder combo was hilarious, but he no longer has that option. Give it back to him, I say!

• Sunder and Block 2 added to base
• Upgrade line 1 changed to Riposte 1/2/3
• Upgrade line 2 changed to Vigilance, Bulwark: Dwarf, and Defiant

Dwarven King: Regal Presence would be nice, but I would settle for his old 7 speed again. He's a key part of the Dwarf powerturn, and 6 speed for almost 90 nora is less than ideal.

• Power Attack 3 upgrade replaced by Stat Bonus - Speed 1

Dwarven Windfury: I love this rune, plain and simple. His recent changes were steps in the right direction, but he remains too expensive for normal play. With only 9 base damage, the Stun upgrade is quite risky without also taking Berserker. He's another case of ranged Sunder being problematic, so I would remove that upgrade as well.

• Base damage to 11
• Base cost to 79
• Sunder upgrade removed and replaced with Strike

Elemental Warstaff: Decent alt damage and stats for his price, but he could stand to be a little more versatile with his Immunities. Bequest is a rather useless ability and could stand to be removed entirely.

• Immunity - Magical added to base. Upgrade replaced with Deflect
• Bequest upgrade replaced with Council: Spells

Ethereal Priestess: I hate the fact that you're basically forced to take Haste on her, or risk a sub-optimal upgrade. Better to just remove it entirely and give her some Dwarf synergy. She is also a perfect opportunity to give IS something they've longed for for a while now: Dispell.

• Haste upgrade replaced with Camaraderie
• Dispell added to base

Euan Ironfist: With all heroes becoming significantly cheaper, Euan has become a little too efficient in my opinion. Raising his cost, and giving him back Block on base as compensation, would help remedy this.

• Base cost to 89
• Block 1 added to base

Exorcist: Yay, Conduit works now! Much rejoicing! But Exorcist is still bad. A few more interesting, and Dwarfy, upgrades can fix this, as well as the replacement of Exorcism. Be honest: how many times have you actually wanted to use that ability?

• Exorcism replaced with Smite the Unholy 3
• Cleanse removed from base
• Charged Heal added to base
• Hunter: FW upgrade replaced with Sever Summons
• Hunter: UD upgrade replaced with Cleansing Aura
• Heal Self 1 upgrade replaced with Race Charged
• Heal Self 2 upgrade replaced with Spell Charged 2

Ironfist Brawler: Simple change here, and one that benefits both Drunk decks AND Dwarf decks.

• Surge: Enemy replaced with Surge: Dwarf
• Drunken added to base

More on the way, but this will do for starters.

 

I haven't played them extensively recently, but they just seem to be lacking imo. Too low of damage to be much fun at all, they seem to just dampen and trudge across the battlefield. They seem to either be way behind and useless, or completely unstoppable if they get ahead too much. Hopefully someone who plays them can comment better than I can. Also, I never had rockforgers to try so they might make a difference. If somebody could point me in the right direction for making a grint deck, I'd be happy to create one to give some better feedback.

 

For constructs:

1) Dwarven mortar crew should lose lumbering, declare hunted, and unequipable. The price should then be adjusted as appropriate.

2) Dwarven catapult and Siege engine should regain race dwarf. I don't know why they lost it but since they don't have construct immunities they should get it back to synergize with dwarven handler.

3) Obviously fix complex machines, and dwarf driven. (although id just assume see dwarf driven gotten rid of and lethargic added instead).

4) Id prefer to see a change to reckless flight and gain control. Get rid of gain control and change reckless flight to something more like this:

Reckless Flight: This unit has flying. Every other turn this unit gains wandering unless it is grounded. This effect cannot be cleansed.

This change would consolidate 3 abilities (namely for the ironfist glider) into 1 ability while keeping the flavor of the unit intact.
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5) Silverclan protector should have channel damage replaced with barrage 1 so it has a cheaper option that isn't a sandbag ability that wont be used and charge us the same difference in nora just to use it.

6) Silverclan cavalier: move acid bomb 3 to base, remove corrosive grenade from the game. put complex machines in upgrade chain B. add class tinkerer. change range to 1-3 and increase damage to 10.

I may think of more stuff latter but these are the ones that are bugging me right now.

 

I like protector as is, but I would like to see barrage one added to upgrades as a cheaper alternative. Channel damage is nice, but then again, I don't know how much nora it costs.

I like the silverclan changes, but complex machine should stay on base imo.

 

I always wanted Archangle of Almara to have attack charged 2 and something else to spend charges on.
The Celestial Spear ability should get its range back, if it's going to continue costing 15 nora, but I'd rather the cost get lowered too.

Alternatively, I'd say take it away from Priestess and give it to a melee.

Magnus needs more HP, his old low base was accounting for adaptive -- it doesn't make much sense without it. The algorithm is very weird when it comes to hp, for some odd reason.

Not digging the whole slapping barbarian race things to runes just cause, I don't even like that NCC set the dual race precedent. Also, Synergy should have a cost, things having more than one race should pay a higher premium.

I have some ideas for AoM and Warsaint that I'll edit this post with later.

 

For Constructs:

Groble Rock Eater: I'd prefer to see him streamlined into Tanking like he used to be. Shave some Damage, leave things like Resilient, Calcify, etc. Bring back at least SOME of his other Resistances on Upgrades, and scrap the damn Tough ones. Almost EVERY Tinkerer has access to Build, there's no excuse for wasting upgrade slots on Tough ranks. Constructs have no tanks for Alt damage since Crystal Golem is still crap, so let GRE tank. Put him back in the 70s, he felt good there.

Fix. Complex. Machine. Seriously. Annoying as hell. Dwarf Driven as well, of course.

Silverclan Protector: Can we PLEASE get Aid Defense back? Enduring Aura is fine and all, but I'm really missing my Aid and Vigilance Spartanstruct.

Siege Engine: Siege Weapon needs to go. Just...seriously. Begone. Go home, you're drunk.

Spare Parts went to being Constructs only, now we just need something more interesting than Bestow, because Constructs aren't a Death Benefit theme, yet we have Spare Parts and Melt Down....wat?

Improve: Speed back on Armory. I can forgive the whole losing Basic Attack thing, and losing Blacksmith Boon. I just want my Midrange Supporter back. Dropping Unequippable would be nice as well. Because seriously, that'd be like...I dunno. Passive on Barbarian Elite.

 

I would suggest looking into the price of Battle Leader as it is currently a 15 nora ability which when compared to BM, or commander: X, and boost: X is a joke. It would help out IS as a whole to see it lowered as we have the majority of units with the ability.

Drop it down to 5-6 nora with champion price adjustments as deemed needed would be fine imo.

Also, I don't know if you are tracking but currently the Barbarian Elite has Power Attack 1-3 as an upgrade AND Execute base. Seems very redundant, unless I am missing a reason you would want to have both. Replace Execute with Battle Leader and he would be perfect while costing 1-2 nora more post price drop.

It would effectively give humans, and barbarians 4 Battle Leader champions which would offset their general weakness to swarm style bgs.

also, Elite Skirmisher is not a beast anymore for some reason. Could this be looked at as it was changed in a patch a bit ago to be one. Isran is still waiting on Race: barbarian too, just a heads up.

Edit: and with the recent buff to the Mounted Kinsmen, there is no reason to run Plains Savage at all as Team is already better and half the rice of Barbarian Rider ( 60 Nora vs 30 Nora). An Adjustment there to make it worth running would be something to look into down the road.

As far as Warchief Inauguration, it needs to just lose applying Blood Clan in favor of a 4th Clan mechanic. I am suggesting it be similar to Honorary Sigil so that you don't hav eto worry about power level or designing anything new. Just Copy and Paste more or less. It would open up the optimal single cast list to 4-5 more units.

Edit 2: I do also want to point out that the Barbarian Guardian might be a bit overly efficient. 66 nora grants you a lot there. As well as the Interrogator might not need shatter, not going to complain but it does just seem slapped on which is kinda awesome if weird.

also, Provision should be nerfed then spread around. Drunk decks are just a sub module of equipment based decks and it could go a long long way to fleshing out both to combine their synergy a bit. Non drunks can get a weaker Provision to make use of those beers.

 

I thought Barb guardian was super efficient too until I saw Klub with toughness 3 and scale armor for the exact same cost. what the christ

 

Yea all heroes are dumbly cheap. It is really sad that the devs started out trying to the pricing only to have stuff like this happen.

 

Northern Cross Fanatic. Replace her hunter/cleave upgrade line with Melee Specy 1-3 as her kit works better with that and it was her original synergy to pounce in and melee specy it up.

 

No! I like pounce and cleave, it makes her a GREAT target for Might of Ironfist with a damage boost AOE pummel.

 

Also, on that note, the Mark of Al'mara thing seems nearly useless. The brand is great, but then the 5 fire damage bonus for hitting a branded target is useless. That 5 damage is reduced by armour/toughness AGAIN. So cardinal with his 8 attack +5 from brand isn't dealing 13 damage, he's dealing 8 damage, reduced, then an additional 5 damage, further reduced. He's lucky if he gets to deal a full 8 damage WITH brand bonus, and anything with a few defense and resilient takes no damage from him.

 

Well if you honestly think cleave on a range 1 champion beats getting +2-6 damage and 1-3 def when she pounces in, drastically increasing her staying power, then I don't know if we can can ever agree . Guessing you missed the G leap+ MS3+ evasive days on her.

As far as mark, its free extra damage, from every champ with it, on top of hurting them for attacking/using abilities. The free damage is just icing on the cake when they are taking 5 damage for healing someone, for attacking, for leaping etc. Throw in Spears and they really cant attack you with out taking a big hit back. Its really nice when built for it.

 

Well, to be fair I did miss those days, heh. I've only picked her up recently, but the might of ironfist combo really helped me shred through some units. I'd definitely try that upgrade path though, but isn't melee specialist pricey?