Markoth's Desk (August 18th patch list and next patch discussion)

So many stupid decisions were made when they retooled champs that I start to think of it all as if I'm going to list it and throw my hands up/punch a kitten.

 

2-5-9 nora compared to the 3 for Hunder Underdepths, 6 for unholy, and 8 for cleave. Rank 3 would put her + 1 nora.

 

Don't forget though, if you sunder up a unit the mark/brand damage goes up too.

 

So after thinking about it for a bit I have come to the conclusion that you are right that Improve Range has been a large part of her identity. So I removed it from my suggestion and made a different suggestion to Blessing of Al'Mara (Target gains Race: Angel similar to Taint giving race: draksar) to improve its use within the faction. I have no idea if the second suggestion will make it to live but I would like to know what your thoughts are?

 

Target Paladin probably so it's not improve range on anything. Doesn't work well with undead.

 

I'd have to agree with @Baskitkase, I don't like proposing tough as an upgrade on -any- construct, since adding tough to any construct is quite simple to do in game. Unless you could add the addendum that if a unit already has tough, it can gain resilient from build em tough?

 

Personally I feel its not so much "grintmaw" but the rock defiance thematic core of their decks. But in the Current state of rock defiance I will say that they are exceptional in terms of defensive power, but their rather straight forward playstyle can get bypassed and out manueavered by weaker things. I think a few things should happen to trolls to make them stronger as a rock defiant theme rather than a debuff everything or bust type of theme.


Earth elemental: Role: mobile harrasser, tank

I think people miss these as much as acid elementals, you don't mind their presence, but it gets annoying after while.

I think Earth elemental should finnaly get race construct first off, hes a construct from the poxnorian gods ya know, he needs a flavor text change or a race change.

Second, he should have domain rock or rock defiance on base and terraformer should be removed from his upgrade tree, that leaves 2 upgrades that could go with the earth elemental. If anything I say something cool like surge rock or rock trap or just a state bonus for speed or damage in replacement.


Earth golem: role tanky
this guy has been shoebox expect way back when the game was alot slower and killing one of these guyes actually took time and skill when he was 6 speed and inching toward your army. Now hes more like a punching bag that is slow before and in combat that really doesn't deal all that much damage.

I would want to see him alot more potent in terms of use getting in and during combat making him as annoying as he can possibly be

Add massive leap 2, tremor and add something cool like opportunistic or accrue on base for speed. this will make him alot more mobile if he is ment to have immunity physical lumbering.

His second tree was lazy done it seems: damage aura 1, and rock defiance as his only upgrade options? We can step it up I think. Rock defiance should go on his base build. replace his upgrades with throw boulder, a defensive stance or stat bonus of 2 or 3 and unstoppable.

After he should sit nicely in the 60-65nora catagory to put to work as a cheap meat sheild that is an annoying rock golem.



rock forger: tanky meat machine.

I think this is everyones favorite underdog rune that every roots for to pull through cause his playstyle is so unique.

Domain rock on base for one. this is one thing I don't get from DoG. They give us these boring upgrade patterns and nothing real versitile on the upgrades. We have Macadamize and stone arm sash so if we want some domain rock, we will get some. These slots could really change up the playstle instead of maintain the traditions of being boring. Sure runes like earth elemental are designed to fill that role but he again suffers the same " domain" issue.

vigilance added to his resist physical upgrade tree. Surge rock should go on base and he should have to choose between consume and vitilize meaning self sustain or improvement of speed for everyone.

This should leave him in the 82-84 nora ish area which is perfect for a build up rune like him.

Now I will talk only about trolls. Trolls were the introduction of both dampen and troll defiance(later renamed rock defiance) which both balance them around between a powerful stand off bg, or a defensive steam roll. you can either stick a earth elemental and make him drop heart stones in all decks or you can build up a wall of dampen with bouncers ready to whoop booty in someones font and grintmaw hymn it up for some potent defensive magic that adds around their bonus.

grintmaw bouncer: I think he should get changed because he is right now ironfist strongest rush tank. he not only comes with a nifty signature ability which protects from agression, but it also massive leaps, holds defensive lines in font while planar bound, and on top of that he has regeneration and just is a complete defensive monster. When you try to kill him he can get tales of valored and equip a full plate armour, tacitcal manual or stone arm sash to be dang near invicible all the while increasing his health and damage. This guy is the core of the troll theme I think he should get a cost increase personally in favor some other things for the theme be done(like what was mentioned in this post) but he is just great.

marsh troll: regeneration, beater

these things can live forever and can get quite potent with little investment. As a split rune it will be hard making his home IS when he was born from FS. I say we make him a bit more sticky when he gets into combat I think he should have his second tree changed to be something more along the lines of: clamp, constriction, and make pulverise 2 basic. Detection 1 would be going long for him but in favor to save it for other champions I think it does him justice.

Pulverise is a whack upgrade on him. If hes ment to be a brute atleast make him capable of maintaining combat as one.


Grintmaw thugnificient. thugnificient used to put in work.he was a strong rush rune that would always find a way and reason to be in your font. Now, He not great for his cost. Hes low hp, low speed and pretty low in damage. He also isn't very tanky making crushing charge pointless on him since he will only be using it defensively.

personal sugestion, remove trail rock Its pointless. give him rock slide on base it was his signature ability given to him and he needs it to soften the defense of the game up from a distance before rushing in with crushing charge.

his first tree should be changed:

Stone bomb 2.
stone bomb 3.
arrow eater/absorb(he deflects arrows and projectiles)

Second tree:
deploy rock trap, fault break, +1 speed

Slinger and shaman are in pretty good spots as core runes for the theme and singer with relocate relic and far shot makes it harder to get into combat with them.

 

I've been playing a bit of trolls lately and I agree with the above pose, however, i'd like to see more units that are actually...trolls. =/ I don't like using all this other stuff for 'rock defiance' i liked 'grintmaw defiance.' I love the concept and everything, but it's easy to outmaneuver and destroy trolls right now, imo. I would like to see the magnificent with tectonic pulse, too, because that's just awesome and fun.

 

Are we including the Rockforger in grintmaw talks? What happened to his super-cool ability to give 5-spd champs an additional point of speed? That was the best thing about him.

We should just do-away with the entire Troll race (clearly it was corpse's idea of a joke) and make them elementals. At least then they wouldn't be completely worthless in anything outside of a troll deck.

Grintmaw Magnificent should be renamed Grintmaw Mundane. Rock Slide, Rock Front and Trail: Rock are all very redundant and seem to be sandbags. Where's his Mirrored shield?

 

Do away with the Troll race?! They are my third favorite race I'll have you know! Lol. Rockforger still has it as an upgrade option, and I guess I would consider him a troll? Kinda? Idk, the whole 'theme' needs some more glue to hold it together imo.

 

It seems like they just didn't feel like making more trolls and slapped the troll racial on a bunch of old shoeboxed runes trying to kill 2 birds with one stone, when all they did was put it's head in a soda-can ring.

 

I just want to ask markoth, when it comes to CTE/Holy based decks, does EVERYTHING have to ba a paladin? I mean im going through them right now, and Aria the PREISTESS is also a paladin. Making everything a paladin only serves to dilute the individual nature and cross class synergies already in the bg. Now Every type os synergy will have to affect paladins which would mean non paladins get less and less viable. Please, consider how things NOT being paladins actually helps the archtype more.

 

Its because people got upset that they even MADE trolls when nearly all of those designs could function as constructs or dwarfs and they moved it around to increase the themes bench by adding underused units to it and turning Grintmaws into IS elemental units.

ALso as far as Construct speed issues, Rockforger has Vitalize which would work on ALL slow units so I don't see the issue f improve speed not being on Armory. Could someone explain it to me?

 

I was excited when trolls were made...but I guess i'm outnumbered there. I feel they are quite distinct from construct and dwarfs.. Also, every faction got new units in that expansion to flesh out and create new themes, so I don't know why there was any reason to be upset. Skywings, Vashal, Ferren, I thought it was a really fun expansion at the time.

 

Eh, Each there own, I just know that it was the same when they did the split factions in that it only served to restrict the design space for the current races and established themes.

 

Ahh so you would rather see existing races and themes expanded on instead of new ones?

 

Yes.

 

Yeah, I get that. At the moment I'd definitely agree there's plenty of work to be done on what we have, but in more stable times it's fun to see new things too, imo.

 

Trolls are unique but need a couple more units to finish them off.

Magic dmg debuffer and a mid-formation nexus aura champ.

 

You can use Barb guardian at 66 nora with BM 3 and Nexus. Throw on a Stone Arm Sash and he fits the theme perfectly. Veil Walker also works or EP in the same mind set of use stone arm sash.