Whats wrong with the minotaurs? Why aint the game full with ppl playing FF UD - minotaurs? lacking range, but crazy mobile, hmm sure iam used with IS and walking slooooow. Insane dmg, easy to reach 25+dmg because of how portal stacks. ok each time i try play it, i miss pincu and grimlic, but if i start to add those, the minotaurs dont get any space. Added one non-minotaur for getting rid of pesky relics. kinda bad detection, no extra AP(?), no shatter/disarm, no cleanse (but thats normal in UD?) I have no idea on what to bring for spells,relics or equipment with them, was atleast 9years since i actually tried UD last time. So far my favorite minotaur is the gladiator, omg i want him in FF IS, what a massive tank. And the question is, whats up with Prince Malandur? how can he be so bad?
Trample, Regal Presence, Opportunistic Assault on base - all quite expensive abilities. Maybe they're not played as they're a higher skill cap deck? Might not even be accurate - rarely seen them and never played vs them. Gladiator is really your favourite? He looks super overpriced to me
Sentry is a very solid champ with detection Schatter ain' t needed that much but if u find urself missing it just run the spell Cleanse - 2 stokers are auto AP gen - PoV and some rips will do
Yeah he is too expensive, now if he had been in IS he would have been nerfed instantly. Harder to get him to survive a bit so that thirst for battle kicks in, UD dont really have that playstyle. when i get into melee the enemy dies to fast, i just need to learn to use the dimensiondoor better vivify+thirst for battle + tough
Added another sentry, yeah he is probably better then i thought when i looked the first time. Cleanse with stokers, hmm need to work on that, thanks for the tip, dont really like to hurt my own troops to cleanse but could be useful. I hate rips, and they are gone soon anyway, but PoV is in, its really good. Vivify and some multiattackers and the dimensions doors are probably enough if i figure out how to use it in the best way. so much good spells and relics, no space for the awesome equipment and some of the minotaurs are lacking class or imo have the wrong class. Are there any synergy for Brute in ud? if they where instead Rouge, Ranger...guess i just want to use Cloak of Long Daggers on them first few PvE games are really fun, but think the problem is there are just 14 minotaurs to pick from, but most of them are ok, besides poor prince Malandur.
There's no class synergy in minos and they dont rely on any equips. Tinder Box is probably the only one worth including as a perseverance counter (head of osarius is one too). Definitelly make sure to run 2 thunderhoofs they are AMAZING just smack mandate on them and be ready to one rund whatever u want. AP gen wise u could also run nefari messenger since u don't like rips. Ps the flame siphon is nice on mage knights and battlemages cause of regen
To make up against their vulnerability against range make sure to run either orb of protection or breath of ashes
Orb of protection dies so fast oh so fast, but guess it really does it work. Starting to feel the minotaur gladiator aint so great as it looks like :-( its amazing in PvE, but reaper's blade kills it so fast. Not sure why, but I just cant get space for a sacrifice in the bg. puh. playing UD without sacrifice is like playing IS without heal, blasphemy. allthough i love drain vitality, its so great in making my minotaurs survive a little bit better. i just need to remember to not hit purify units with it again. Thanks for the replies and tips.
Sac is the first thing that should go in every single UD bg. You then fill in the other 28-29 rune slots.
Agreed normally, but the minotaurs regen, heal on deploys, heals on attacks so i removed it. Feels strange but works ok. And champs that costs 70nora are maybe not worth using the Sac spell on, sure i save 25-35nora on sacing it, but training on portal away instead and divide the enemy. or just portal away, save up ap for 2 turns then portal back and do dmg.
I mean, I still disagree. It's such a huge nora swing and not only that, tempo swing - the point is they just piled a load of AP into a champ to not kill it, it's wasted their entire turn. I get what you're saying though, sure you can limp away with 10 hp and try to get back in later to get another attack before dying, but I just don't see that as better than getting 30+ nora and a new, full hp champ on the board. Maybe some resident Mino veteran will come and tell me i'm wrong, but I think sac is powerful enough that it is at least a 1x in any deck in the game.
Well iam using so few champs in the bg, so each of them matter if they are alive, and with swap if i can get it to survive a turn and get 6/8AP depending on which champ it is, ill swap it somewhere and it can doublehit again, or if i can swap it to get a kill i give it Mandate from sheoul and its healed up alot. Best useage is probably to contest a sidefont while regening up, if lucky they are using a spell to kill it. and if they spend 30+ nora on a spell to kill an almost dead minotaur it was better norawise then if i had sac'ed myself. I think your right, sacrifice is auto in UD, but hmm that mandate from sheoul with minotaurs insane mobility, well i need alot of luck/training to get to work.
I mean, after you rescue it when it's low and then swap it somewhere to double hit again - surely that's now the ideal time to sac? As it's bound to die for free. The harder your units to kill are, the easier it is to get good sacs off. Also if you're using so few champs how do you not have room for it! What are you running that's undroppable?
No then i swap it away again or ive won that fight, or lost think i give up so fast atm instead of struggle and regroup. I dont know really, but 15champs is it, 10spells, 3 relics and 2 equip, think ill drop 1 equip for another mandate from sheoul, that healing and extra dmg is good. think iam running to much different things to get to know UD again, instead of use the "best" runes. but you never know if you dont test...sometimes there is a forgotten gem hidden in the shoebox dust
You can do a forum search of my name and find several posts/decks of mine regarding minos that may reveal additional information. Minos are a strong theme, but you won't see many other people running them atm because of (1) small player base and (2) stagnant meta. Most players with ease-of-access to runes that enables them to switch decks and potentially play something like minos are switching decks quite often. In addition, there are several themes (frost amp, skywings, KF rangers, several beast decks, worms, skeles, psychic amp, spirits, skeezick, illusions, etc.) that are either as strong or stronger than minos (this is just my opinion). Couple that with any full faction or split meta deck automatically being stronger than minos and they really aren't the best option for the competitive player. Lastly, most new mino players crutch extremely hard on door abuse, which is only good against average or lower ranked players. You already pointed this out in the OP, but minos advantage is that they are highly mobile and capable of altering board pressure and applying it anywhere on the map within the span of a single round if needed. Minos are also high damage, though I think you are exaggerating a little. I have one non-mino in my bg, which is Grimlic. Minos have good pseudo-range options, the best of which is Culler. The problem with Culler is that it isn't reliable ranged. Waiting 4 rounds to get to range 6 only really works in the early game when font contesting, otherwise you're usually going to be working with a 1-2 range champ (though even as a melee unit Culler is strong). I added Grimlic as a ranged powerhouse, as well as to use his illusions (Hint: Illusions can drop doors and also help as a melee blockade for your minos, which are susceptible after intiating a first-strike attack). Sentry with detection 3 is fine. You also have MB and, though a more extreme option, retribution. The font bonus is also decent for anti-detect and forcing your opponent to spend nora on an additional relic. Shatter/disarm are not needed in this meta. However, as a personal choice I have not wittingly run shatter or disarm options since I started playing ~10 years ago. My main cleanse option is purging flames via stoker, and this has been more than satisfactory. For ap generation, you don't need more than PoV. Keep in mind that efficient use of doors effectively saves 3 ap when gap closing. If you find yourself needing additional methods of generating ap, you need to work more on your positioning. Gladiator and Malandur are both bad because they are sandbagged with unneeded abilities. High cost melee champs in a theme/faction with lack of support and healing options is just a bad idea, especially if those champs have no intrinsic defense mechanisms. Here is my current bg:
Thanks for your feedback and the BG, Minos are really good but needs a Grimlic with them. i did search the forum, a little atleast and found some of your old posts. But they are probably still very current since it hasnt changed much at all. Yeah i dropped Gladiator, he was real fun but needs a little more healing then bloodstained claws or tinker box gave, but he did come up to 20dmg+ and 8-10def in a few games I did just play ~30games PvP with my minotaur bg, and got better winratio with it then i have with any of my FF IS bg. I notice you use 2 thunderhoof, i dont really see their greatness, sure on maps with 5fonts and if the other player somehow are more mobile/faster then me and get 3 of the fonts they get very good for their cost. the minotaur that i did get up using alot/most was minotaur thunderaxe, his glorious leap is so good, so i probably drop my last thunderhoof for another thunderaxe instead. iam really fond of melee units that have extra ranged attacks and i think i need to stop use drain vitality so much but its a life saver for many of minotaurs to halt one of the enemy for 6turns, but its useally better to do dmg with spells then slow the game. how my bg did end up, i removed all equip, they are really good in UD but the spells are just much harder for the enemy to counter. i did run into so much shatter/disarm so it wasnt worth using equip, think i miss another aoe spell more then another thunderaxe though.
@Hierokliff Official patch notes aren't out yet, but it looks like Gladiator got a slight cost decrease. I'll probably try him out as well for a bit once there are a bit less bugs with the client. Biggest difficulty was deciding what to take out. Almost took out fiery ambush but figure I'll give the new version a try. I've swapped out one of my portalwalkers for the time being.
I think minotaurs are very nice to play, the cost reduction to Gladiator is very welcome, not sure on how to heal/keep him alive the best with FF UD. Tried 2 different equip (tinder box and bloodstained claws) i really like the bloodstained claws, it reminds me of MoV effect and almost all minotaurs can use it for an extra boost/regening. Gonna take a good look at UD changes after ive figured out the changes for Barbarian in IS. I'll remove the thunderhoof probably
Healing is pretty sparse in UD, youve already got mandate of sheoul and thats basically your best option. You could hypoethically use blood exchange i guess
Minotaurs have a few options, regen, fellowship, those small 4-6pts of healing is sometimes enough, i dont expect them to be fully healed, just healed up enough to force my enemy to either go all out and have no AP left or survive a turn to do more damage. And divide up the minotaurs, with a portal its very easy to move out to the sides for 1-2 turns and maybe trick the enemy to deploy on side font then get back with 10-20more hps. mandate is awesome, maybe i should just use 2... didnt like blood exchange but ill try it again
