More homeschooling nonsense

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by SireofSuns, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

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  2. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    Sure. For starters the american public education system has evolved into nothing more than something designed to produce nice little drones for a hivemind system. It is achievement obsessed and it has managed to eliminate most programs designed to discover what form of intelligence children possess and destroy what education was originally designed for. If you knew the present education system was designed to set up your child for failure wouldn't you be looking for alternatives? TLDR here is a video that may be able to elaborate on my statement.

     
  3. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    Here is a second video resource. I watch this one from time to time as well. I was a history major for some time until I realized I would just be used to promote this present system of education. I may return to education in the future if I can get a job at a charter school or some school worth teaching at. Honestly I would rather be an HVAC technician then contribute to this joke we call public education.
     
  4. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    yeah american schools are america brainwashing centers
    this has been well known

    ya'll a bunch of creeps
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  5. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    I keep seeing foreigners say this about the US, and I'm still not sure where that perception comes from. Care to elaborate?

    Can... Can you say that again? But with grammar and punctuation? I think I almost get it, but I'm not sure.

    First, I find it amusing that a Dutch person would say "y'all".

    Second, the only mildly "brainwash"y thing we used to do was the pledge of allegiance. The motivation was alright (wanting people to care about the nation), but the execution was less than spectacular.

    Now only a few schools do that, and they're usually either doing it because they're messed up, or because they believe they need to hang on to it in order to encourage a love for the nation (which is not blind nationalism (an irrational belief in your nation's superiority over others), it's wanting to make the country better and closer to the ideal).

    Instead we have boat loads of social engineering nonsense (which is a lot more like Nazism than just pledging allegiance to helping your nation), encouragement to oppose western traditions and values, absolutely awful math and science curricula (which, btw, is directly taken from a lot of European educators and businessmen), and the list goes on.

    But yes, it's become much less of a "here's how to solve problems and think for yourselves, as well as the importance of caring about those around you", and more "obey authority, don't think about things that aren't deemed safe".
     
  6. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    The issue with homeschooling has always been how much it limits the person being taught. Chances are most home schoolers certainly dont cover enough criteria to have you properly prepared for life, & while the public schools DEFINITELY have issues with what their priorities are for teaching chances are they did a lot more for me than what my mother could have done.
     
  7. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    mostly on the difference in view in what a goverment should do. seems like the main focus of the american one is to provide military strenght rather than care for the health and welfare of its citizens.
     
  8. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    I subscribe to howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligence. He believed in 9 different types of intelligence. It seems to work in practice as well. Although there are criticisms to it. The style of education is not for everyone. I think if education was about discovering how each child is smart rather than how smart a child is we would have more success with producing quality individuals to contribute to society.
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    Education should be about creativity and self discovery not about producing one type of mind at the sacrifice of all other areas of value. Parents are beginning to home school their children because they see that the public education system is controlled by a bunch of communists who want to homogenize the human mind and produce a bunch of intellectual zombies capable of analyzing a situation in only one way to produce a desired outcome to every situation. In other words the world is becoming one giant echo chamber filled with unoriginal psychopaths and narcissists that attack any individual who might have ideas different then their own because they have been victimized by an education system that has failed them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
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  9. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha



    Ahem.
    Home schooled children are, generally, better prepared than public schoolers. And I mean the ones that get actual schooling, not the ones the public schools voluntold to home school in order to keep their stats high.

    And yes, not everyone has the ability to home school, which is fine, but it shouldn't be denied to those that can.

    I think you don't understand the term "police state". From my perspective, if we use the most negative terms possible without regard to total accuracy, the US is a warmongering nation, while European nations are most definitely police states.


    UPDATE: The parents were able to make a deal with the government in return for custody of their son. They had to give up their passports and agree to the already required regular meetings that the school hadn't bothered to pick up on. So, basically, they had to "agree" to do the things they had already promised to do (that the school hadn't upheld their end of, as well as giving up their right to travel freely.

    I'll be waiting for someone to justify this government action as acceptable and necessary.
     
  10. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    you can think that. but that means I think you don't understand it.
     
  11. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    no they hadn't, you said they didnt have the documentation, so it never officially happened.

    Norway is part of the Schengen area so they can travel to nearly everywhere in Europe without a passport. however they cannot take their child to some 3rd world country to evade schooling. your assertion that they have given up their right to travel is false.
     
  12. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    ": a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures "
    European nations are much closer to that than the US. What was it you said European governments focus on?
    Oh yeah. :|


    I think you misunderstood what I meant: They had filed the immediately necessary documentation, but the school and government hadn't followed up with the rest of it.

    Interesting, I didn't know that was the policy.
    However, that still means they can't travel to countries outside of that group, which is still bad imo. The family moved from Canada to Norway, now they can't fly back to visit family and friends (or decide they want to go back to living in Canada...).
    And they're not trying to evade schooling, they specifically wanted to prevent the bullying that the school refused to do anything about. They could have, in theory, moved to a different area in Norway, but is that really what they should have to do to prevent their child from being bullied?

    The situation started because the school and government firked up their own jobs, it amuses me that you're response is that the parents must be at fault.
     
  13. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

  14. soulmilk

    soulmilk I need me some PIE!

    Just saw this thread now. I am extremely disappointed this happened in Norway.
    (My home country)
    As someone who live in Norway, I know this is neither the police's nor the government's fault, this is all "Barnevernet" or "The Norwegian Child Welfare Services" fault.

    The Police and Government don't really have a say in it, as the Child Welfare Services decide themselves what is good or bad for children, which makes no sense.
    There have been many horror stories about them and their refusal to listen to reason.

    A few years ago, they stole a newborn baby from a couple for no apparent reason. The family had no idea what the cause was. They finally managed to find that the mother had been diagnosed with some kind of mental illness that make her unable to raise children, however she was diagnosed with it when she was around 6 years old because her doctor suspected she had it, which wasn't the case at all.
    The Child Welfare Services won't listen to it however, and I haven't read anything of them getting their child back.
     
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  15. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    finally a local person that can actually tell us what is going on, a reliable source!
    why is the child welfare system not controlled by a system? sounds weird.
     
  16. soulmilk

    soulmilk I need me some PIE!

    It is a highly disorganized organization. They keep changing leaders all the time, so no one in the organization ever takes the blame or fix the horrible situation.
    They only look at things in black and white on paper, and never consider the actual situation and never tries to adapt to it.
    Many people believe they are power hungry and like abusing their authority.

    The Government and the Police can't really do anything, Since only the "highly educated, high ranking professionals, who knows what's best for children" gets to decide what should be done, aka the Child Welfare Service themselves.

    Imagine it as if a Doctor diagnoses someone with an illness. The Government and the Police don't have anything to say it in, since the Doctor is a person of authority.
    But what happens if that Doctor is an incompetent person who have gone mad with their own authority?
    That's basically what have happened to the Child Welfare Services.

    If they give orders to the Police to retrieve a child, the police have to listen.
    If they are ordered to use force if they won't listen, they have to.
    Even though that should only be authorized to use force in situations where the parents have the children hostage or have been abusing them, which in this case, clearly wasn't the situation.
    This to me is clearly abuse of power from the Child Welfare Service's side, as the police shouldn't have been told to use force.

    The Police here are usually very good and adapts to situations to de-escalate the problem, however they can't go against the orders of the Child Welfare Service.

    There are now discussions to make the Child Welfare Services only have authority to help children and the authority of taking away children something the police themselves gets to decide.
     
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  17. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    here we have the opposite problem of the CPS not always being on time with removal of a child from a volatile situation or an unfit parent, leading to deaths.
     
  18. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I can't find it now but I remember reading several articles around 8 years ago completely debunking this line of thinking, while categorizing types of learning is accurate or saying people favor one over the other at certain times can also be considered accurate, but as I remember each person could favor different styles of learning between topics or even days, for example on monday I might have a ton of energy and be eager to learn mathmatics with visuals and practical exercises and puzzle solving problems, where tuesday I may be a bit more reserved and not feel like talking with others and not be up for socializing and just want to learn math out of a text book.

    essentially the practice of applying this categorization to peoples personality is flawed and attempting to adapt lesson plans to what would best fit each child on each day is pretty difficult, then again what I read was a very long time ago so perhaps the scientific opinion on the matter has changed, or the articles I read were flawed.

    anyway finland is on the correct path, anything else is flawed from my perspective thus far. treat teachers like doctors, pay them well and keep the quality high, remove stress from learning and keep it enjoyable and a fun process, and it seems like it works quite well...i'm a bit surprised when you have the most talented people possible teaching your children that are eager to learn they perform better....who'd of thought.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I am surprised you are on board with this. Most of the time when this kind of stuff is brought up, it is blasted as being "left-wing identity bullshit" because it basically says that every child is special and the argument is that some people are just stupid and we shouldn't pretend that we just haven't found their place in society yet, etc. I would have expected you to be on that side of the argument.

    Anyway, as the husband of a teacher; most teachers I know would LOVE to be able to give more personalized attention to each student. Instead, they are burdened with enormous class sizes, have to buy kids supplies with their salary, and have endless paperwork and testing requirements (because, you know, accountability).

    In either case though, I don't think you can get this kind of approach in America where there is so much hatred towards public education. The irony is that public education CANNOT do this on a massive scale when they are constantly being undercut by lack of funding and attacks from politicians. One of the original goals of public education was to allow children to experience more than what their parents knew, as well as provide a greater array of opportunities for learning (i.e. not every home can have a piano, a workshop, and a gym, etc. and field trips to all kinds of places). It's basically a really stupid cycle in America where you give no support (and instead work to undermine) something so you can attack it later for not being effective. Maybe if you tried to make it better instead it'd work out better? Instead, politicians who do this stuff basically victimize the entire population for their political gain.

    So instead, parents are turning to homeschooling so they can indoctrinate their children to their own ideological bullshit instead of being challenged by other viewpoints. This isn't to say that homeschooling parents can't do a good job, but it's very difficult if you don't have a lot of resources or community support for it. Homeschooling is very common in religious circles as well and often ends up raising kids in an echo chamber that attack/shun anyone who does not conform to their beliefs. In other cases, it is just a front for grooming child brides (which is honestly just abhorrent that it still happens in the US).

    I always find it funny people accuse the public education system for homogenizing people but don't care when the religious right is doing this ALL THE TIME (in fact, it is often a stated goal of most religions, to homogenize beliefs and values).

    The reality is that it is less about the system vs homeschooling and more about what the educators are actually able/allowed to do. And in either scenario parental involvement is a huge indicator of probability of success. Pretending that the problem is "public education" is basically just ideologically driven - and sure, I understand if you believe that education shouldn't be publically funded, that's fine - there are valid arguments to be had about that, but pretending that homeschooling isn't as likely to lead to a narrow POV is silly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  20. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    i was with you till you said school ISN'T indoctrinating kids lol

    till then was a pretty good read.

    see SJW + any american or Canadian university for my rebuttal to that comment. or the treatment of jordan peterson or many more examples
     

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